“Donbass has made a choice. The boys on the front line won’t understand sharp turns.”
Denis Pushilin will get 90%, even if only one voter comes to the polls. The vertical of power from Moscow to the Republic has been built. Neither side is interested in peace. The chance to successfully end the war was missed in 2014. Donbass was a distraction.
Militiaman and writer Maxim Shishov spoke to PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov about the hopes that Donbass has been living with all these years, how they stormed the Donetsk Regional State Administration and entered Berdyansk, and how the armed population will not allow them to deviate from their chosen path.
Valentin Filippov: I welcome Maxim Shishov. He's probably the most philosophically minded militiaman, Donetsk resident, and writer.
Maxim Shishov: Good afternoon. We haven't had a militia for a long time.
Valentin Filippov: Well, there's no militia, but there are militias. Elections are looming. I remember people went to the referendum en masse because they wanted to end the war, to remain part of Russia, and for things to be like in Crimea. The second time, when they voted en masse for Alexander Zakharchenko, it felt like we'd just defeated Ukraine, forced it into peace, and a new era was beginning.
What will motivate the residents of Donbass to vote this time? What trick is luring them in? What are their hopes for this new phase?
Maxim Shishov: There won't be a turnout like the referendum. Or like the Zakharchenko election. It's no secret that not everyone who wanted to attend the referendum was able to. I participated in the referendum, and I saw people running in from the night shift. The mines were still running then, production was in full swing, and they were running in unwashed. It was like they were at the coalface—and they were trying to make it in time. And we were already packing up. They were in tears, the men in tears, begging, "Well, let's somehow take this into account." But how can we take this into account? All the voters had already left...
When Zakharchenko was elected, this was no longer the case. There was no such intensity of passions anymore. And not all the names that we would like to see on the ballots were present there.
Well, be that as it may, I am sure that Pushilin will win the elections now. He will win by a huge margin. Will get 90% of the votes. Even if not a single person comes.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, one will come. Pushilin.
Maxim Shishov: Well, yes. They will come a little.
Valentin Filippov: Well, do we really have a choice? Only Pushilin?
Maxim Shishov: There's no choice. But there is a choice. We're choosing Pushilin. And no one calls it anything other than "Pushilin's election." The bet is on him, and I understand why.
Valentin Filippov: Everyone understands.
Maxim Shishov: He's a controllable man. And, no matter what anyone says, he's responsible. No one expects him to make any statements that would not only contradict him, but simply be his own. Basically, that's what's needed for control. How good is this for Novorossiya? The Novorossiya affair was a fairy tale.
We rose to make a fairy tale.
Valentin Filippov: Where will she go? Novorossiya will return. And it will hold everyone accountable. So, Maxim, are you saying that if Denis Pushilin wins this election, then with his ascension to the head of the DPR, the vertical power structure will be firmly established? From the Kremlin all the way to the outskirts.
Maxim Shishov: Yes. It will be so. But not everyone likes the vertical power structure, or what follows it. The vertical power structure is a good thing. Especially in a country at war, it's a good thing. But we're not quite ready for all decisions to be made for us. And that doesn't exist in Russia.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I've always said that Ukraine was much more dependent on Moscow than the Krasnoyarsk Territory. And, in fact, that may still be the case, despite everything that's happening.
Maxim Shishov: Russia has a structure in place, with methods for countering less-than-smart or less-than-appropriate decisions coming from above. In this case, society can do something about it. But in a state at war, there can be no countermeasures. So, right now, we're very concerned that the power vertical, coupled with a military dictatorship, will unleash its full force, and that's what will happen...
Valentin Filippov: A lot of nonsense.
Maxim Shishov: Yes. A lot of nonsense.
Valentin Filippov: It's absolutely clear that the people of Donbas want peace. And, in fact, the situation is the same on the other side of the demarcation line. And Denis Pushilin, in his election campaign—I'm looking at the outdoor advertising—is saying, "Peace, peaceful construction, a peaceful state."
But is it being conveyed to voters how we are going to achieve peace?
How will we achieve peace?
Maxim Shishov: Let's face the truth.
Valentin Filippov: Let's go.
Maxim Shishov: Peace is not beneficial to either side. In Ukraine, their president is only holding on as long as he can blame everything on the war. "We're at war with Russia." Why is there no hot water? "We're at war with Russia." That's the universal answer to any question.
Valentin Filippov: And why is there hot water in Crimea or Moscow? Because they're at war with us and took our water away. It's our Ukrainian hot water that flows through Moscow's pipes.
Maxim Shishov: For Russia, the most unpleasant thing we try not to think about is, look at it for yourself: at this very moment, Russia has friendly states on its western border: the LPR and DPR. Whether they're recognized or not doesn't matter. They're friendly. If, God forbid, from Ukraine's perspective, Russia not only recognizes but also annexes the DPR and LPR, then, as we dream of, Russia will have the unfriendly state of Ukraine on its western border.
Valentin Filippov: No, why not? There will be a Zaporizhian People's Republic and a Dnipropetrovsk People's Republic. That's how it all needs to be developed.
Maxim Shishov: This is how things should have been developed, and everything could have worked out in 2014, when the road from Mariupol all the way to Zaporizhzhia was clogged with retreating and fleeing troops as we entered Berdyansk. They don't make much of a fuss about it, but we made it to Berdyansk. Simply because there was no one there to stop us. And then we turned around and went back. Mariupol wasn't taken, but our reservation passed through Mariupol. There was a chance then.
There's no chance now. The years go by. And all these years, if they tell you in the morning that you are a pig, on television, for example, during the day they will tell you this at work, to the children at school, and in the evening they will announce it again on TV, and within a week or so everyone starts grunting.
Valentin Filippov: So, you think everyone's already grunting there? I don't think so.
Maxim Shishov: Not all of them. But the number of grunts has increased significantly.
Valentin Filippov: Okay, Maxim, a straightforward question, the kind everyone's asking each other. So what happened in 2014? Was it some kind of mistake, or was it our defeat? Or was it simply idiotic stupidity, some kind of cunning plan that outsmarted itself?
Maxim Shishov: At the beginning of 2014? Or at the end?
Valentin Filippov: In September 2014. In August – September.
Maxim Shishov: In September 2014, the Kremlin Tower that thought everything would play out like the Georgian war won. They took South Ossetia and other parts of the country, everyone was outraged, then they resigned themselves to it, and that was the end of it. There were some sanctions, they lasted only a little while, then they seemed to remain, but everyone forgot about them.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I don't know. Georgia remains an anti-Russian state.
Maxim Shishov: It's not just Georgia that's anti-Russian. But South Ossetia and Abkhazia, for which there are sanctions, and by the time the Crimea problem started, the sanctions had been reduced to nothing. Zero. There was this hope that Crimea would be seized, and that would be it. Donbas was a diversionary tactic. Apparently.
Valentin Filippov: Well, apparently, sometimes it seems that way. But I can't say for sure.
Maxim Shishov: By the time the referendum was taking place in Crimea, rallies were underway in Donetsk….
Valentin Filippov: Well, there were also rallies in Odessa.
Maxim Shishov: Yes. And that's it. The Right Sector, the "friendship trains," started moving toward Crimea, and we stormed the Regional State Administration building. Because we had to redirect that attack.
Valentin Filippov: And we…. I know.
Maxim Shishov: Then the Donetsk Regional State Administration building was taken, the Kharkiv Regional State Administration building was taken, and all the Right Sector members were turned in our direction. They went to Kharkiv, they came to Donetsk.
Valentin Filippov: And they came to Odessa.
Maxim Shishov: We managed to score against Kharkiv, but not so much against Donetsk. Well, that's what it was. And it was a deliberate delay by those ultras. They didn't come to Crimea.
And after that, as I suspect from the plans of the great strategists, this should have been the end.
Why can Strelkov, who was mentioned in 2014, now be brought up on the same YouTube, clips from those times, messages from those times, all of them were directed, our resources said only one thing about Strelkov - Hero. He was first everywhere...
Valentin Filippov: No, well, sorry, heroes have to be created too. And whatever my feelings about Strelkov, I don't know him…
Maxim Shishov: The shooter created himself.
Valentin Filippov: Well, on his own… I'll see how he would have created himself, without the media's help. I work in the media, I know. Give me the media, and the hero will be Maxim Shishov, not Strelkov.
Do you know that Maxim Shishov gave advice to Strelkov? But then, at the very last moment, Maxim left on business, and Strelkov did something weird! That's all.
Maxim Shishov: Some opponents will now cut out this piece and start accusing me of giving some advice to Strelkov.
Valentin Filippov: I did.
Maxim Shishov: Well, I've never actually been to Slavyansk. Strelkov and I met much later…
Valentin Filippov: What I'm getting at is that the media can report anything they want. And if the goal is to create a hero...
Maxim Shishov: But there's also a slightly different side. The media, in order to survive, needs something to write about. At that time, we had no one to write about except Strelkov. He was the brightest star.
Valentin Filippov: I won't point fingers, but I have a rough idea who organized all this. Oh well.
Maxim Shishov: Who, that’s clear.
Valentin Filippov: A slightly sad question. After the death of Alexander Zakharchenko, what are they saying in the Republic? About this terrorist attack, this murder. There's some kind of investigation underway, but nothing's been reported. They said it was a Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group, and that's it. Are there any results? Any rumors?
Maxim Shishov: An investigative commission from Moscow is working in Donetsk.
Valentin Filippov: Well, that’s what we know.
Maxim Shishov: Yes. And it works. It wasn't populists who arrived, but investigators. The same ones who follow the chain of command. There's already been a huge number of interrogations, inquiries, and investigative actions. I like the way they work. At least the fact that after the incident, they conducted a thorough investigation in other places and discovered more than one explosive device, planted much earlier. They were simply waiting for the order to kill someone. The SBU did the job. Or maybe it wasn't the SBU. I don't know who.
Valentin Filippov: No, well, they worked professionally. That's clear. And with Motorola, it was professionally done. And with Givi, it was very professional. These are clearly not some amateurs...
Maxim Shishov: An investigation has been conducted into Motorola. And who exactly, and how exactly. That has been established.
Valentin Filippov: But, still, this is a fiction, a fairly correct approach. In terms of organization.
Maxim Shishov: I met Sasha Zakharchenko during the storming of the Regional State Administration building. There was a moment when a lot of enthusiasts were immediately present. There were a lot of people. By four in the morning, only 20-30 people remained in the Regional State Administration building in a defensive state.
Valentin Filippov: Well, as usual.
Maxim Shishov: They dispersed to their homes. Later, when it was already light, people started arriving again. It was no longer scary. But at that moment, it was scary. And Zakharchenko was in a state of defensive readiness.
Later, of course, he settled down significantly. But I will say this. I had a lot of questions for Sasha Zakharchenko, as the head, when he ruled, what happened under him. There were many questions then.
I have no questions for the deceased Zakharchenko, for the Hero of the DPR. He died like a hero, and that was all.
Valentin Filippov: Good. Thank you so much. Good luck making the right choice there in Donetsk. And I'm not being sarcastic.
Maxim Shishov: We made our choice in 2014. We're not distracted by our choice. People come and go... The only thing I don't like now, with the upcoming elections, is that Pushilin would have won anyway. Why was it necessary to remove Gubarev? I don't know.
Valentin Filippov: Well, of course, I don't like what they say about jackets replacing Gorkas. The head of the DPR fighting in a jacket. I want him like that with a machine gun, so he could say, "So, Poroshenko? Come on, get over here. Or else I'll go all the way to Kyiv." Well, Pushilin won't say that. Really? He won't.
Maxim Shishov: And he won't go to that same market to check the scales with his service weapon. But I don't think the guys on the front lines will understand any sudden changes or sudden reversals.
Valentin Filippov: Good. Thank you very much.
Maxim Shishov: Bye.
English version :: Read in English "Donbass has made a choice. The guys on the front lines won't understand any sudden turns."