Separ vs dill
The great Ukrainian and the Kremlin separatist almost exchanged insults, interrupting the conversation. But for the sake of purity, they returned to the dialogue. The terms didn't match, nor did the causes and consequences. The significant events of the last four years were not only assessed differently, but also differed. Roman Tsymbalyuk sees Russia's aggression as Ukraine's main problem. Valentin Filippov is convinced that Ukraine has been steadily and persistently heading toward disaster on its own.
At the same time, the UNIAN correspondent in Moscow and the PolitNavigator columnist showed that even with such contradictions, peaceful coexistence is possible. But only on Skype and not for long.
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Valentin Filippov : Roman, I wanted to thank you. Just when it seems like Russia has abandoned us, you show up and say, "Putin, withdraw your troops," we start to believe that there are Russian troops somewhere, that there are FSB agents somewhere, that we just haven't encountered them, we looked for them, but we didn't find them.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Regarding Crimea, everything seems clear. As for Donbas, I have a question. You know how things can be called by different names. Troops, not troops. But today I can tell you that even in Moscow, no one is hiding the fact that the Russian Federation controls the captured part of Donbas militarily, politically, financially, informationally, and economically.
Valentin Filippov : You're saying that the militia, the first and second corps, are Russian troops. But these guys serving there, they say, "Where are the Russian troops? We're waiting for them."
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I understand perfectly well that the figures cited vary, and that a fairly large percentage, and more than half of the rank and file, are local citizens. And to ignore this, or to hide it, or to claim it's not true, is, at the very least, simply stupid.
But the fact remains that these military units, despite their national or state personnel, are subordinate to the Russian military political leadership.
Valentin Filippov : The fact is that when the Minsk agreements were signed, Moscow committed to taking the republics' territories under its influence and, in effect, forcing them to comply with the Minsk agreements. And they did indeed bring the uncontrolled militia under their control.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: When we talk about war, it seems like everyone wants peace. Well, until there are consistent definitions on both sides, in Moscow and Kyiv, it's clear there will be no peace.
Valentin Filippov : Well, of course.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: And people will die, Russian-speaking citizens first and foremost, if we're talking about civilians. I don't want that. Therefore, when they call us "civil war," I say for the hundredth time—I've said it everywhere in Russia—what kind of war is this, that the entire leadership, the support for this entire group—I'm not even talking just about the military component, but everything is paid for from the Russian Federation budget.
So let's somehow decide. I say again that for me the residents of Donetsk, Lugansk...
Valentin Filippov : Okay, then. What's the reason then? Maybe it was because the Ukrainian Armed Forces entered Donbas? Maybe there wouldn't have been an army…
Roman Tsymbalyuk: You know, we’re kind of in these endless arguments…
Valentin Filippov : Who's first?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Who's first? And I feel like next you'll say that we shouldn't have protested, shouldn't have gone to the Maidan.
Valentin Filippov : No, no. Maidan is the people's right. And President Yanukovych's duty—that's why he's no longer president—was to resolve this situation.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: And he had plenty of time.
Valentin Filippov : Yes.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I generally support the idea that as president, both now and then, he's like a captain on a ship: he's responsible for everything, especially in situations like these, and I don't absolve anyone of responsibility. But let's go back to 2014. The fact that not everyone was happy about the Maidan or the coup—maybe even I'm willing to accept that statement, because, essentially, it changes nothing.
If not for the Russian entry into Donbass. First to Crimea, then Donbass. Call a spade a spade, occupation, these conversations about what...
Valentin Filippov : Helping the people.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: So, I sincerely believe that the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine doesn't need to be protected, especially not with tanks. And if Strelkov and his group hadn't entered Slovyansk... As a result, Donbas would have remained within Ukraine's political sphere, and there would have been no war, which is most important.
Valentin Filippov : No, well, how much more humiliation can we tolerate? Wait. Look, there was the Maidan of 2004.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Humiliation in what?
Valentin Filippov : Half the country was humiliated until 2010. Then Yanukovych came to power. He did a little bit of work, and then he started humiliating Russians, started helping the Banderites, started creating a kind of puppet-like freedom, and started moving toward Europe. Who even asked him to join the European Union? He came to the presidency with completely different slogans. Then he starts, he's moving toward the EU. Do you understand? And I'll tell you more. In Donbas, even in 2013, there were outdoor advertisements saying we were joining the Customs Union, and Russian was the second official language. Something similar was also going on in Odessa. And then, suddenly, Yanukovych first wants to join Europe, then, when he can't reach an agreement, a new crowd appears, they sweep Yanukovych away, and they move toward Europe again. And the first decree, by the way, was about this unfortunate regional language.
Look what happened in Odessa. This language law was introduced. Our people themselves wrote statements about what language they wanted their children to study in. And, based on the number of applications, classes were formed. And here, in two, three years, from 87 percent in Ukrainian language teaching fell below 50 percent. And we were so sure that within 10 years we would completely switch to Russian education, because those in high school were not transferred back to Russian. And then suddenly: no one will ask you. What law on education has been released now? Sorry, how many people can you humiliate? You will either crush us with tanks, it turns out, or you will assimilate us by force. Who gave the right to assimilate the Russian people?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Well, Valentin, before we begin our discussion, we need to define some terms. I'm convinced that the Ukrainian people live in Ukraine. And if they live in Russia, they have their own state.
Valentin Filippov : No, it's Russian, and Russians are a multinational state. There are Russians, Chechens, and Ukrainians there. And Ukraine is also home to many nationalities. There are Bulgarians in Odessa, a whole settlement there.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: And all citizens of our wonderful country, regardless of nationality, are the Ukrainian people, which consists of, if we're talking about the ethnic component, Ukrainians, Russians, Bulgarians, Jews, Georgians—the list goes on and on, because everyone lives here.
Valentin Filippov : So why are the interests of only Ukrainians being served if everyone lives here, if we have a multi-ethnic country, if we have areas of compact, historical settlement? It's not like people came and started living there, on Ukrainian soil. It's the land they've lived on since time immemorial, like the Tatars in Crimea, for example.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Valentin, my deepest feeling is that I'm in favor of human freedom in many areas. And I really find it a shame that the people who governed the country before, and perhaps even still govern, often focus their election campaigns on three topics: history, language, and NATO or not NATO. For example, if I were president, my first decree would be to ban all discussion of these topics for five years.
Valentin Filippov : Five is not enough.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Only at the specialist level.
Valentin Filippov : Roman, five years go by so quickly. I remember, I don't know what year you were born, but I remember the collapse of the USSR…
Roman Tsymbalyuk: 1980, I was still a pioneer then.
Valentin Filippov : And I voted. I voted against Ukrainian independence, just so you know. But that's not even what we're talking about. I agreed with a lot of things. For example, I agreed with the idea of Ukrainian being the only state language, because what was said back then? Let's make Ukrainian the only state language for five to ten years, to give it a chance to grow, because it was so suppressed, and then we'll make Russian the second state language. Ten years have passed. And it turns out that, no, we didn't make it the state language for ten years, but the only one forever. And so it is with many issues.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I can't agree with you here, frankly, because I'm convinced that any even slightly literate person in our country can speak Russian fluently. I visit Kyiv often, and everyone understands this perfectly well.
Our country is called Ukraine. And I, for example, cannot understand at all what kind of discussion this is about. It seems strange to me, to be honest.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I don't know. If we were organizing the country as a multinational, multicultural state, then that's perfectly normal. Of the 52 million, 20 million were Russian. And even in that statement by Kravchuk, it was written: We are creating a new state of Ukrainians and Russians. Yes, Ukrainians were listed first, but Russians were second.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I'm deeply convinced that the Russian Federation made a colossal mistake from a geopolitical perspective. Because by taking all these regions that had drawn us together, drawn us toward each other, and thanks to them, there was war and the deaths of thousands of people.
Valentin Filippov : No, the thing is, unfortunately, not all of them. Not all the regions that were able to support them were taken over. That's the first thing.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Well, because they were defended with fire and sword.
Valentin Filippov : Oh, we defended it. Yeah, that's a lie. No one even went there.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Well, listen. If it were a lie, believe me.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I'm from Odessa. What are you telling me about someone trying to take over Odessa?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I've been working in Moscow for many years, and I can tell you that the appetites of the Russian state are determined solely by the top leader. And if I'm not mistaken, on April 17, 2014, for the first time, the President of Russia, speaking not to his "flock" but to his voters, the people, said something interesting: from Kharkiv to Odessa—it's all ours; for some reason, the communists gave it all away, and God be their judge.
Valentin Filippov : Well, yes. I agree.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: But that's Novorossiya. After the head of the Russian state uttered that word, a real war began in Donbas, using every possible means. When you say Ukraine failed to defend itself, I disagree with you, because Russia's appetites were very, very great.
Valentin Filippov : You know, I don't want to say anything bad about the Russian leadership, but their appetites and what they talk about are often far from reality. That is, some people, everyone claims to be some big boss, that they drink vodka with Putin almost every day, or at least see him.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: They say Putin doesn’t drink vodka.
Valentin Filippov : I'm speaking figuratively. And so these people start saying that we're about to take Odessa, we're about to take Brussels, it's already been agreed upon, everything's fine. And then it turns out that they're just some crazy guy. These are the kind of impostors who suddenly declare: Putin and I have decided everything, we're about to do everything, literally, the cruiser Moscow is approaching here. And you look – there's no cruiser. So, where is it? Well, there it is, the invisible cruiser. I mean, there are a lot of these crazy people. I genuinely think they're crazy, but people believe them. Crowds of people gather: Oh, a guy from Moscow has arrived personally from Putin, we're about to... There's already a division landing there... But Ukrainians love that too. You remember 2004, when Karmazin, when he was shouting: Planes with Russian special forces are landing at Boryspil, weapons are being distributed to bandits from bases in Crimea. In 2004.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: In 2004?
Valentin Filippov : Yes, those were the kind of quirks that existed back then.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I won’t argue, because I haven’t read this statement.
Valentin Filippov : You can even find this on YouTube.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Valentin, let's return to language in our philosophical reflection. So, the actions of the Russian state have led to the consequences we have, including in the issue of Ukrainization. You know, today I saw a potential candidate for Russian president, Ksenia Sobchak. And she says that Crimea is certainly Ukrainian from the standpoint of international law, but in reality, it's ours because Russian people live there, and we can't hand them over…
Valentin Filippov : Well, it’s not a thing, after all.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: But you see, what's happening? It's an interesting twist: the Russian state—and this applies not just to Ukraine, but to the entire post-Soviet space—is turning these people, Russian speakers, ethnic Russians, into a fifth column. In fact, countries within the current borders of the post-Soviet space are universally recognized, or at least were officially recognized. So let's figure this out. What do you want?
Valentin Filippov : No, wait. The border wasn't demarcated. That's the first thing. Secondly, according to the laws of the USSR, and Russia is the successor to the USSR, the right of nations to self-determination is explained separately for the republics, and that different things can happen within the republics. And Russia, as the legal successor to the USSR, is generally obliged to ensure this right for the peoples who lived in the Soviet Union. Another thing is that Russia doesn't want to take on these responsibilities very often. And you'll have to excuse me. And Ukraine? What is Ukraine? There was no referendum on the flag. For example, I've always been against this flag. Well, I don't like it. I don't like this coat of arms. I don't understand why state symbols were adopted without a referendum. Notice, just by the Verkhovna Rada. They got together and said: we will have a two-color flag, yellow and blue. Oh well. Now everyone's used to it, but in the 1990s it was completely outrageous; what the hell is this thing hanging there? How can you just accept a flag? Just say it'll be this one. Who said that? Why?
I don’t want to insult the flag now, I swear, I don’t want to insult the flag of Ukraine. I’m just saying that everything that is Ukraine today was approved somehow... then at that time they accepted it - they said: let it be, we’ll sort it out later, we’ll sort it out with the language, we’ll sort it out with the flag. For now, let's hang this up. And then they’re like, oops: this is Ukraine! You say, well, that’s right, we haven’t agreed yet. No, we've already agreed. How come? We didn't agree.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I don’t understand you here.
Valentin Filippov : I'll explain. I'm from Odessa. When Ukraine declared independence, Odessa began to be rebuilt as an imperial city, complete with all the trappings. From an Odessan's perspective, the collapse of the Soviet Union meant the return of the Russian Empire. These streets appeared: Ekaterininskaya, Richelieu. Decommunization happened very quickly, like a runaway. We're all so proud, and then they tell us: No, you're against the Ukrainian people here. What do you mean, against the Ukrainian people? Guys, this is Odessa as it is, be proud that you have it like this. By the way, there was this young guy in Crimea, about 20 years old. As soon as I arrived in Crimea, he happened to be my neighbor, and he spilled some on me. I went to see him, and I found a bottle there. And just to be clear, Crimea had recently fallen under occupation, as you call it. And he, having had a little to drink, said: I don't understand, what were they missing? We hung their flag on every holiday, we played their anthem. What else did they want from us?
Do you understand? But in Kyiv there is a different view. Why are they singing songs in Russian in our Sevastopol? Why are they suddenly the city’s anthem “Legendary Sevastopol – the pride of Russian sailors.” Well, here you go. This is the city of Russian sailors. Either you want to have this city, the city of Russian sailors with this whole beautiful history, or you don’t want it.
And the same thing with Odessa. Now they've turned on that unfortunate Catherine II . Well, be proud. Catherine II, she created the whole of Novorossiya. It's written on every monument: this is the governor of Novorossiya, this is the ruler of Novorossiya, this is the head of the Novorossiya region. The word Novorossiya is our native word, you understand? The one that is now considered a crime is written on every wall, and not by us, but by our ancestors.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I can answer why there is such a reaction, if it is still important.
Valentin Filippov : This is important. I understand that this is the reaction. But couldn't we have reacted in Kyiv or Lviv, rather than in Odesa?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Look, I agree that somewhere there might be what's called excesses.
Valentin Filippov : “Dizzy with success,” Stalin said.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: It's too early for us to be dizzy. But the fact remains. For example, I'm genuinely alarmed by such names in Ukrainian cities, and I'll explain why. Simply put, if we'd been talking about history before 2014, then by God. But now our former Russian friends and former brothers want to create a political entity out of this. And, whatever you say, I can agree with a lot of the emotional things I heard. But the fact remains that Russian President Vladimir Putin, then not president but prime minister, said in 2008 that "we, Russia, recognize the state of Ukraine, including Crimea. And there can be no parallels here with other conflicts, at the very least because there was no ethnic cleansing or ethnic conflict." This hasn't happened before, and doesn't even exist in Donbas.
Valentin Filippov : I'd argue with you. But I won't.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Is this a war between ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians?
Valentin Filippov : This is between people who identify themselves as Russian and the political nation of Ukrainian.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: You can call these people by different names, but we proceed from the fact, and it seems to me, that the only way to prevent people from fighting until they kill each other is to fulfill their obligations and agreements. And I'll repeat it again, for the hundredth time...
Valentin Filippov : Separate the troops.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: The Russian Federation recognized Ukraine within its 1991 borders. And if this somersault hadn't happened, or rather the occupation of part of Ukraine's regions—what are you saying? If things had been different, they would already be knocking on Petro Alekseevich's door and saying, "Peter Alekseevich, it's time."
Valentin Filippov : Roman, they're already snitching. That's not the point. You see, I'm absolutely certain that a war with Russia was inevitable, because it's a new Ukrainian project – fighting Russia and begging for money. I'm absolutely certain, judging by that rhetoric, they would have gotten somewhere. If not with Russia, they would have declared me Russian and would have chased me, declared me an occupier, along with someone else, maybe even you. The point here is to find an enemy. They would have declared him Russian and fought him. A war with Russia would have been inevitable. That was the main goal. And this war plays very well into the hands of the so-called Yatsenyuks, and they don't hide it. They say: Finally, we can create normal hatred in people... so that people understand that they are not Russian, that we are different nations. But that's true. It's a project. Fighting Russia is a project. Yushchenko even set his sights on it.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Valentin, well, let's try to clarify this then. Have they achieved this goal? Is there a war with Russia?
Valentin Filippov : Yes. I think Ukraine is very successful, this "revolutionary" Ukraine... I'll say this: you know, you say separatists. What Ukraine? I don't want what's happening in Kyiv, this political upheaval, it's been going on for 20 years... I don't want to see them anymore. I don't want to see this Shuster together with Poroshenko, with Saakashvili. They even dragged Saakashvili in. You see, this is a mockery of the people, it has to stop.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Valentin, we're all very emotional. Let's get to the point.
Valentin Filippov : I'll finish the sentence. Victory over Ukraine isn't about taking Bankova, it's about taking Savik Shuster's studio. He'll be the last one there to shoot himself and poison his German shepherd.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I don't want to upset you, but Savik Shuster's project isn't working; it's been closed for over a year now, I think.
Valentin Filippov : You see, Ukraine has already embarked on the path of purification.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: That's the first point. Secondly, what you said, I understand, is that you acknowledged the fact that a war is underway between Ukraine and Russia.
Valentin Filippov : Not exactly. Russia isn't fighting. Russia might not even be involved, but Ukraine, today's Ukraine, which was formed as a result of the coup, is waging war against Russia. That was its goal, and it's still waging it. And it doesn't even particularly need Russia for that. I swear it doesn't, because Russia could still win, so what? I actually think they'll wage the war in such a way that Russia won't even notice.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Valentin, if this were the case, then there wouldn’t be, as you said, vacationers with weapons in their hands, which we talked about above.
Valentin Filippov : And the Russian people rush to each other's aid. It's not the presidents who rush to help, but the people who do.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: You see, we still need to define our terms here. Are we talking about the emotional side of the issue or the international and generally accepted one? Because emotions. I agree with many things. I don't even object to Putin's statements about "one people" or anything else. For me, one thing is important: that the entire ideology of the Russian state be limited to the territory of the Russian state.
Valentin Filippov : Well, who will protect my interests?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: And if that were the case… What are your interests? Where are you physically located now?
Valentin Filippov : What difference does it make? I want to go to Odessa. And I want all those bastards who are sitting there now to go to jail. And it will be according to the law.
Who can provide this for me? “The whole world” provides you with help. You say it yourself, the whole world is with you. Both the US and Europe provide protection for you. Who will provide for me, besides the conditional Putin? With his Russian Federation.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Do you want Putin to ensure your rights in Odessa the same way he did in Donetsk and Luhansk? Do you want Putin, in order to protect your interests, to impose a curfew? And for people to live like this for the fourth year in a row? Do you want ATMs to be shut down?
Valentin Filippov : No, no, no. Sorry, but Ukraine and the Ukrainian Armed Forces did this. Ukraine did this.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Who destroyed Donetsk Airport?
Valentin Filippov : What? Who? Ukraine. Bombed it to hell.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Don’t you know who “cyborgs” are?
Valentin Filippov : I know. And they were bombed later, too.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Well, Valentin, let's put it this way then. If you're reducing everything to absurdity, I suggest we end this conversation.
Valentin Filippov : I understand we've reached a point where our views differ significantly. So, what's the point of arguing? You'd better tell me this. These press conferences with Putin. Do they ask prepared questions there, or not?
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Not quite. As far as I've gathered, it's clear the pool asks a lot of questions. They communicate very closely with the presidential press service. As is the case in any country. Under any president.
Valentin Filippov : Well, yes.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : It’s clear that no one does it like we did under Viktor Fyodorovich, where a journalist had to read it word for word from a piece of paper.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, yes. I remember.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : There's definitely nothing like that here. Vladimir Vladimirovich is a decent speaker. I'd even say he's good. There, they probably say, "It depends on the situation" or "You raise the question." And you can interpret it any way you like.
Valentin Filippov : Forgive my impudence. Regarding your question, was it coordinated in any way or not?
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Well, I'll continue my answer. Perhaps the regions, regional media, can somehow coordinate or disapprove. I don't know, but I assume they can. As for foreigners, I've never heard of anyone doing this.
Valentin Filippov : Didn't you agree?
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Yes. I've never done that. Although, when I showed up in 2014 wearing a "Ukrop" jersey, a guy from the administration called me.
Valentin Filippov : But the fact is, the way your question was phrased, and the way the answer was phrased, it seemed to me like a performance. They deliberately manipulated your question, tacked on a question from regional media.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : They brought up RIA Novosti's question. But listen, I'm a guest here. And I'm a guest, including at a press conference. And it's clear they all work for the same person, Vladimir Putin. They clearly didn't like the question. There was another protocol question about American participation and Minsk. The Russian position has long been known. And the answer was quite predictable.
This gives Vladimir Vladimirovich time to collect his thoughts. If he needs it. Or maybe he doesn’t need it. On the other hand, it’s easy to balance, this is a live broadcast.
Valentin Filippov : Well, yes. But to me, your question didn't seem like a question either, but rather a political declaration. It didn't even require the right to question Putin.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : I can explain my logic. And in previous years, it was precisely the wording that yielded interesting answers. I consider it my great merit as a reporter when he said, "We're sending people to resolve military issues in Donbas." So wait. Let's look at the article of the UN Charter.
Valentin Filippov : Ta, oh.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : There's a definition of aggression there. So, sending irrational military units that aren't part of the army is aggression.
Valentin Filippov : Well, it's not just this aggression. A lot of things are aggression. There's a certain illogicality to Russia's actions. If I were in the leadership's shoes, I simply wouldn't recognize any kind of government in Ukraine. I still wouldn't. Until things get better, I wouldn't recognize Poroshenko or any Rada.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : You see, Valentin, that's probably why you can't live in Odessa. Because you want to be liberated. Like in Donetsk.
Valentin Filippov : Oh, it has begun.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : No.
Valentin Filippov : Well, have we moved on from this conversation?
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Yes.
Valentin Filippov : I can talk about this topic for a very long time.
Roman Tsymbalyuk : Let's close. We've really said enough.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I wanted to shift the focus to Putin, and you came back. Then another question. They say Putin has four doubles. You've been here several times already. Is it the same person who comes every time?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I think this is fiction.
Valentin Filippov : And many believe.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: You know, there are two concepts. There's the "collective Putin," like the state apparatus that makes decisions that are then made by one person. And then there's the individual—flesh and blood. He's most likely the only one.
Valentin Filippov : Well, how does it look, anyway? Will it last longer?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: He's still young, listen. He's 65, he could still be in charge for another 20 years.
Valentin Filippov : Well, here's why. I watched a video, I put it together, from Kyiv. From a rally of Saakashvili's supporters. Doniy spoke there. He said it beautifully, he said that it benefits Putin to have corruption and profiteers in power in Ukraine. And so Putin hired corrupt profiteers, and now they're in power in Ukraine. And everything they do plays into Putin's hands. Because if there weren't corruption in Ukraine, there would be a revolution in Russia. But in Ukraine, there's corruption, poverty, all sorts of bullshit. And they're all absolutely "consciously" supporting Putin's plan.
Then I look, one comes out on the other side and says that Putin is interested in unrest in the city. In Kyiv. So that the power would swing. That's why Putin hired Saakashvili, and.....
I wonder, if, God forbid, Putin is gone, what slogans will the next Maidan take place under?
Roman Tsymbalyuk: First of all, I must point out that you are complaining about infringements, but you speak excellent Ukrainian.
Valentin Filippov : Accent.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: You speak Ukrainian perfectly, if you want to.
Valentin Filippov : If I want.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: If Putin is gone, I am convinced that Russia, as a state, will be stable in its foreign policy. And it will continue to advance its interests as it sees fit, which, in my opinion, is criminal—a personal approach—regardless of the president's name.
The fact that our, let’s call it in quotes, elites, political leaders, are using the Russian factor in the situation of military clashes that we have in the Donbass in order to speculate on internal issues and in their political struggle, let’s leave it on their conscience.
I would like people not to speculate on the security of our Ukrainian state.
Valentin Filippov : Well, alright. Thank you for your forecast of stable development for Russian society, regardless of Putin's presence or absence.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I wasn’t talking about society, I was talking about the Russian state.
Valentin Filippov : Okay. The state. I don't think even Sobchak can ruin anything.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I mean, here, I come to Kyiv, and they ask me, "Well, what's going on there? When will Putin be removed? Or when will Russia fall apart?"
I tell them, my friends, you shouldn’t count on this even in principle. We must always proceed from the fact that this will always be a strong, merciless state that will always want to either crush us or hang another flag over our country.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, I want to do that too.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: I'm saying that if it falls apart, consider it a bonus, a bonus for the great Ukrainians that we are. But don't count on it.
Valentin Filippov : I'm afraid that if Russia ever falls apart, Ukraine will be so covered in rubble that it won't be able to get out from under it for another 400 years.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Well, I don’t know.
Valentin Filippov : You know, the collapse of a major state on your borders is a sure thing. Absolutely. We all wish each other ill will, as it were, "when it falls apart," but I think Putin, the collective Putin, understands this very well. He declared Novorossiya—or didn't declare it. He understood perfectly well that if Ukraine were dismembered now, such a mess would ensue that you'd better hide.
That's why I think he emotionally rallies everyone with his name. And he doesn't deliver any hard blows. Although, he could. Although, I want to.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: You have answered some of the questions that were asked of me.
Valentin Filippov : That's what I wanted you to answer. Okay then.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: It was a pleasure talking to you.
Valentin Filippov : Me too. It was nice to chat and get to know each other. My main hope is that UNIAN doesn't cut its Moscow bureau. And then we'll see each other again.
Roman Tsymbalyuk: Agreed. Goodbye. Happy New Year.
English version :: Read in English: Separ vs. Dill