“What the Americans took, they don’t just give it back” - General Reshetnikov.
Russia is not fulfilling its functions as the leader of its own civilization. That is why the West is “biting off” piece by piece from the Russian World.
When the US deals with Iran, it deals with Russia. When the US deals with Serbia, it also deals with Russia. When the United States subjugates Moldova or Georgia, it deals with Russia. To weaken Russia and its influence, not only are economic sanctions introduced, but the Church is also fragmented, as is happening in Montenegro and Ukraine.
Retired SVR Lieutenant General Leonid Reshetnikov told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov that integration in the post-Soviet space, like a thousand years ago, is opposed by regional elites, and that Ukraine will choke the United States.
Valentin Filippov : We welcome Leonid Petrovich, retired lieutenant general of the SVR, to our impromptu studio. Although I disagree, generals don't retire, especially not from the SVR. Hello, Leonid Petrovich.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Yes, indeed, they forgot my last name, my last name is Reshetnikov.
Valentin Filippov : It's too well-known for us to say it out loud. Leonid Petrovich, tell me something unexpected; as an Odessite, I'm curious. There are now a lot of Russian-produced films about Odesa. I don't want to judge their artistic merit, but what does this mean? So, are the new generation of Russians being instilled with the idea that Odesa is, after all, part of our common country?
Leonid Reshetnikov : Perhaps this idea needs to be instilled in young people. For me, it's an axiom. Why isn't Odessa Russian? Of course, Odessa is a Russian city, in spirit. And in its history, of course. We are proud of Odessa as a city of the Russian Empire, then the Soviet Union. This is the state of mind, the sentiment of many people.
We have never promoted Odessa as a Ukrainian city or any other... We have always considered it our hometown. Odessa. Just like my native Kharkov, where I am from. It never occurred to me to consider Kharkov a city not connected with Russia, I repeat, with the Russian Empire, with the Soviet Union.
Valentin Filippov : Okay. As someone who understands what's happening in the world, questions arise by association. About Belarus. There's some kind of incomprehensible conflict going on right now. Do you think this is some kind of Western plot or the greed of regional elites? Why can't we create a Union State, take that first global step, when will we see that restoring the Union is possible?
Leonid Reshetnikov : Well, I think you were right when you mentioned the interests of regional elites. Often, many integration projects fail because of the interests of regional elites. They hinder unification. You know, I'm actually a historian by training, a PhD in history, and I want to say that this has happened throughout Russia's thousand-year history. Why didn't unification work out? Why were Sergius of Radonezh and Dmitry Donskoy needed? Why Alexander Nevsky? And so on.
This has already happened, and all these problems were associated with regional elites, as we call them now, but then they were princes, feudal principalities, and so on. What is evident here is simply not the interest of the people, but the interest of those who are now in power, who do not want to compromise in any way.
No, you see, there is no spirit, no idea, no spirituality, no understanding of why all this is, why this exists. Why does Russia exist separately, Belarus and, I apologize, Ukraine exist separately? Why is this, why, what is the point, what is the mission of Belarus? There must be a mission.
Valentin Filippov : In Ukraine, they're now explaining that they have a mission: to stand guard over civilization from the bast-shoe-clad Russia, from the Asian hordes of Russians. They have a mission: they stand shoulder to shoulder, fighting in the east.
Leonid Reshetnikov : What civilization are we talking about? Seriously speaking, there are practically two civilizations: the Anglo-Saxon and the Russian, or Russian Orthodox, civilization, which has existed for a thousand years, from St. Vladimir to the present day. Of course, it's tattered in many ways today, but it exists. Specifically, the Russian Orthodox civilization.
There are no other civilizations now, two hundred or three hundred years ago. And the whole point of history, and everything that happens, is the struggle of these two civilizations. China is not a civilization, China is a great powerful power, but nothing more. The bearers of the spirit are only Russia, and those peoples and countries that live in the area of Russia must live. So they must fulfill their mission.
But Ukraine is not fulfilling its mission. Belarus wants to skid, not fulfill its mission, to join somewhere, right? To some other civilization. What's the other one?
Valentin Filippov : It doesn't work out that way for the other one either. Purely geographically.
Leonid Reshetnikov : It doesn't work. Because we're not cut out for that civilization; everything is different here; we've been different for centuries.
Now in Montenegro, look, it’s the same as in Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I wanted to ask.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Yes. The majority of Montenegrins are Serbs, they don't want to be Montenegrins, they just don't want to, they go out into the streets and pray.
Valentin Filippov : I know.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Religious processions. The whole point is that they're trying to drag them into another civilization. But they don't want to go into another civilization.
Valentin Filippov : But, Montenegrins, too, are not, it seems, a different civilization.
Leonid Reshetnikov : And you know, those Montenegrins who decided to become Montenegrins and not Serbs… What is a Montenegrin? They're mountain Serbs, Serbs who live in the mountains. What's the difference between them? So, this segment of Montenegrins who decided to become, to belong, to Western civilization, to Anglo-Saxon civilization—it's the same as in Ukraine—this segment of the population also decided to belong to Western civilization.
Therefore, the Serbs are resisting, actively resisting, the Serbs themselves. And if it weren’t for the Muslim Turkish and Albanian population of Montenegro, they would have won long ago. It’s just that there is tension here because, based on this principle, there are significant forces that are preventing the Serbs from defending their interests in Montenegro.
Now at any rally in Belgrade and Montenegro, two words are spoken: Montenegro (this is Djukanovic’s Montenegro) and Cernogora (this is the Montenegro of the Orthodox Slavic civilization). They say: “We are for Tsernogora, but we are against Montenegro.” And Djukanovic and his whole pack, they are “Montenegro”. Here is a clear difference in words. If we carefully follow the terms, the words, then everything immediately becomes clear to us.
Valentin Filippov : Fine. But what if they're constantly chipping away at our civilization? They're constantly chipping away at it, so…
Leonid Reshetnikov : Of course.
Valentin Filippov : So, perhaps there's no center of gravity in our civilization? You're saying now, "They, the majority, would have decided things at a rally." But we understand perfectly well that nothing is decided at a rally, that there must be options for development. And perhaps there isn't one.
Leonid Reshetnikov : The whole problem, Valentin, is that Russia isn't fulfilling its required 100% of its functions as the bearer and leader of Russian Orthodox civilization. It hasn't for over a hundred years. For over a century, unfortunately.
Of course, now it would be... after all, Russian rulers, Russian tsars, emperors, they are Russians, they have always acted as defenders of civilization, defenders of Orthodoxy. Always. Wherever anything happens. Whether in Palestine, or there, in the Caucasus, or somewhere else. We have always acted from this position.
We're not performing now, we've given it away. Well, there is a patriarch, so he will say... But this is not a purely church matter, this is a geopolitical, this is a civilizational matter, here Russia must act as a state defending its mission, fulfilling its mission. That's the problem.
Again, at every rally and procession everyone remembers Russia. Yes? In Belgrade and Cetinje, everywhere. Russia, Russia. What about Russia? Well, okay, our patriarch has spoken. But mostly Russia is silent. Silent. And this leads to what you said correctly, in my opinion: they bite off, they bite off. As soon as Moscow begins to fulfill its mission, everything will turn out differently.
Valentin Filippov : Now Muscovites will say to us, "Oh, well, that's right, our boys should be dying for you there again. For your Kharkov or Voronezh, where are you?"
Leonid Reshetnikov : Voronezh, thank God, is still in Russia.
Valentin Filippov : They definitely don’t know this in Moscow.
Leonid Reshetnikov : So, Valentin, you don't have to die. Sometimes a strong word is enough. A strong, clear, firm, and stern word is enough.
Valentin Filippov : Fine. But here's the situation, look at what's happening with the Church. I see that the Patriarchate of Constantinople, or whatever it's called, has clearly taken the position that it wants to co-opt... That is, that Moscow is weak enough for it to seize territory and push Moscow out. It seems there's no state behind it; it's actually located in Turkey.
Leonid Reshetnikov : I don’t agree here.
Valentin Filippov : I don’t agree myself.
Leonid Reshetnikov : What Phanar is doing now is an action directed by the United States or forces backed by the United States. It's currently a very active, aggressive line in the humanitarian sphere. I can say with complete confidence that in Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece, the ambassadors of these countries have proclaimed and publicly declared that Russia's humanitarian influence in these countries must be stopped. And what is humanitarian influence? It is, above all, faith.
Valentin Filippov : Yes.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Well, and history. It's monuments, it's contacts, it's culture. Over the past two years, we've seen intense activity by Western representatives or Western countries in this humanitarian sphere. Restrictions, entry bans, attacks on the Church—it's happening everywhere, in other words, it's a widespread offensive.
And we, Russia, first of all, cannot perceive this as some kind of purely religious matter. Absolutely false. It will be a tragic mistake if we, the population, our people, perceive that these are religious disputes. What religious disputes? These are attacks on our last trenches in which our civilization sits. Latest. They must not only be defended, we must go on the attack.
And the same Bartholomew, he has long been known for his connections with the Americans, he has long been known as a man who works not for God, but for himself, for his own pocket, one can even say frankly. And now they are using it. And we cannot leave this only to the care of the Russian Orthodox Church. Here our entire machine, our entire state must come to the defense. I repeat again, and you don’t need to have a weapon in your hands, you can act without a weapon, you can act very firmly.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I don't know. I don't see it working yet. Even looking at my own Ukraine, right? Well, as far as Ukraine goes, Odessa isn't Ukraine... So far, Russia hasn't even been able to impose any sanctions or use economic leverage against Ukraine. Still, Russia and its circles operate based on short-term gain, not any policy—gradually coercing a neighboring state into doing something.
And maybe I will say blasphemous things, but the conditional Pavel Volya and Galustyan sometimes bring more benefit to the unification than the Church. Because, well, the church there is maybe a small percentage. But remember, “Our Russia” was watched by the whole of Ukraine, “with a bang.” We were a single space, we laughed at the same traffic cops, at the same teachers at school, at the same concierges who said, “Who did this shit here?” Yes? That is, it united us all.
Leonid Reshetnikov : I want to say that if we focus on issues like humor, Galustyan, Volya, and so on, we'll achieve nothing. It's all frivolous, it's all superficial, it doesn't unite, it's not a civilizational challenge. This means that our nation is in such a bad state, we're in a bad way, you and I. We're in a bad way, thinking that jokes will save us.
And if we remember the history of our entire country and our entire people, then, excuse me, people walked with a cross in their souls, not necessarily with a sword, but with a cross. And if we don’t have a cross, we won’t achieve anything.
Valentin Filippov : Good.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Unfortunately, Valentin, not only are we being robbed of our humor, cut down, as you say, but we're also missing a cross; our people are missing a cross. After all, look at the Serbs, the ones protesting now, right? They'll probably lose, because a NATO-Church is being created. NATO is actively involved in all these processes.
But. These hundreds of thousands of people who take to the streets, they are not all church people, they are just Orthodox, they are traditional Orthodox people. And for this they take to the streets, for the sake of their traditional Orthodoxy. The overwhelming majority do not confess, do not receive communion, I have worked in Serbia for many years, I know that the minority does confess and receive communion.
But the feeling of belonging to civilization, to Orthodoxy, to one’s Church is felt by a significant part, a very large part of the people. We don’t have that, and because of this we are weak.
Valentin Filippov : They are always on the edge of the fight, that’s why they are stronger there…
Leonid Reshetnikov : On the edge, yes.
Valentin Filippov : You know, the most Russian people live on the outskirts. Where the enemy is close.
Leonid Reshetnikov : I would say that they live on the fault lines of civilizations.
Valentin Filippov : Yes.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Here, on these conflicts between two civilizations. And they are more, in this sense, more spiritual, I would say, more resolute, more powerful.
Valentin Filippov : So, it's not about the military equipment we can supply to Serbia, right? So, that doesn't solve anything?
Leonid Reshetnikov : Firstly, we can't supply much. And secondly, the authorities won't use it as they should. That's the kind of government they have now. Therefore, if, as I see it, a word were spoken, a word from the heights of Russia, it would so lift the spirit of the Serbian people in Montenegro and in Serbia itself, in the Republika Srpska. It would be more powerful than all the tanks, cannons, and planes.
Valentin Filippov : I wanted to ask about Moldova. There are elections there soon. Presidential.
Didn't Dodon justify himself? Or is he what he can do?
Leonid Reshetnikov : That's right. Valentin, from my 33 years of experience in intelligence, what the Americans have taken, they don't just give up. Once they've taken something, it's very difficult to take it back. And Dodon is probably doing everything he can, but you can't just take back what the Americans, or the forces we all conventionally call Americans, have taken.
I think that it is almost impossible to wrest Moldova out of these hands. Currently. Therefore, we need to preserve Transnistria, strengthen them, support them. But it is, well, extremely, extremely difficult to wrest Moldova out like this, by playing by their rules, so-called democracy.
Valentin Filippov : The same question about Ukraine. The Americans took Ukraine. Is there nothing we can do? Well, I don't know. Well, at least bite off some pieces from there? You mention "Transnistria," well, at least we need to somehow make sure Transnistria isn't blockaded.
Leonid Reshetnikov : They took Ukraine, but maybe they’ll choke on it.
Valentin Filippov : Can they?
Leonid Reshetnikov : They'll choke. They could choke. The country is big, the territory is big, the people are big, the people are active, to some extent. They could simply choke, that makes some sense. And they didn't take everything. They didn't take Crimea, and they only took parts of Donbas.
Valentin Filippov : That Donbass…
Leonid Reshetnikov : Well, it doesn't matter. It's still not a complete success. And I repeat, this is already too big a chunk; it might get stuck in their throat. Especially since they've been swinging all over the world, and I think they'll stumble somewhere.
Valentin Filippov : It will break somewhere, right?
Leonid Reshetnikov : It's breaking somewhere, but it's breaking within the country. We've never seen such a circus in the US.
Valentin Filippov : Yes.
Leonid Reshetnikov : This has never happened before, and this circus continues. At the same time, they are shooting and killing; they've been accustomed to doing so for decades. But there's a danger, a danger for them, that they'll get too far ahead, and then it will be very difficult for them to get out.
Therefore, with Ukraine... Ukraine is a separate issue; it cannot be compared either with Serbia, or with Poland, or with Bulgaria, or with Moldova. Here everything can turn upside down unexpectedly.
Valentin Filippov : Well, what about the fact that we're now ostensibly striving for peace, we're declaring it. What does that mean? That we want to freeze the situation? They've already done it, and that's it. We want to, like, emphasize it, legitimize it, and then, well, divide ourselves? What's the strategic plan now? No, maybe even tactical.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Well, I think both the strategic and tactical plans are based on the fact that Russia is under a powerful attack. Under attack from the United States of America and its allies.
Along all lines: sanctions, and reprisals or threats of reprisals against the remaining countries semi-independent of the West, and an intensification of the position within Russia, along all lines. Again I want to say on all issues. Russia is now in a state like this, now this term has disappeared; two or three years ago it was popular, hybrid war.
It continues, it continues, and, of course, influences the development of both tactics and strategy regarding Ukraine. We must proceed from this. Are we ready for some more active actions or is this situation around us preventing us from doing so?
You know, there is still one good quality of our people, both in Odessa, and in Kharkov, and in Moscow. This is patience. But not patience, there, in difficult moments of life, oppression, as they say: “Russians are slaves, patient” and so on.
No. Patience in politics. Maybe due to the fact that he served in intelligence for a long time, but this was our main quality. This is patience, this is waiting, this is the willingness to wait and play at the right moment. What is probably required from Russia now is patience. Probably, many people in the West want us to rush to the attack.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, we want it here and in the east.
Leonid Reshetnikov : Yes, everyone wants it. Everyone does. But what's realistic, what the potential consequences might be, is very difficult to calculate, and it requires serious analysts and serious information. Therefore…
Well, we lost Ukraine a long time ago.
Valentin Filippov : Well, yes.
Leonid Reshetnikov : And for a very long time.
Valentin Filippov : But they simply didn’t say anything about this, so naive people thought that it was still ours, even inside Ukraine.
Leonid Reshetnikov : We thought… but victory is inevitable. Victory is inevitable, I'm serious.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, I know. I never doubted it.
Leonid Reshetnikov : You know, I already told you once, when I was the director of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, it was quite recently, I left at the beginning of 17.
So during the crisis with Ukraine, the 14th, 15th year, our relations with the Americans then completely calmed down, were interrupted, and the administration asked us, and we, this is the institute for managing the foreign policy of the presidential administration, now it is headed by Mikhail Efimovich Fradkov, then They asked us to organize at least some channel of dialogue with the Americans.
And we invited Kissinger and his analysts. He came with his analysts, but then, I remember, there was such a wild drop in pressure, like now in Moscow, and he could not just get up, he was already nearly 90 years old then, well, very much. He himself did not come, but his deputy, Tom Gran, known to all Americanists, came. He worked in the State Department, worked in the White House, he is one of the main experts on Russia, with excellent Russian, and he brought several other analysts.
And this discussion began, it lasted about 5 hours and had already reached such an intensity that I was afraid that my guys would rush into a fight with them. But at some point he says: “Let’s do this, Leonid, I want to tell you our basic, general concept of the United States of America.” “America,” he said, “has a divine mission”—and I quote it word for word—“to lead the whole world”...
Valentin Filippov : Logical.
Leonid Reshetnikov : "If we don't fulfill this mission, America will fall apart, but if you obey this mission, in Russia, everything will be fine, everything will be fine."
Valentin Filippov : I don’t believe it.
Leonid Reshetnikov : "And if not, then the problems will just keep growing." I say, "Tom, what if we have a mission?" "What's your mission?" "To be an alternative to your mission. How can we leave humanity with just one mission? Well, you and I were probably taught in school that the world is evolving, a struggle of contradictions, and so on..."
“Well then, he says, everything will be bad.” This is their main policy, their main line towards Russia. Sometimes it seems that now they are busy with Iran, but they are also dealing with Russia. They are now in Serbia and Montenegro - they are the ones dealing with Russia.
Because even in the 90s, when American advisers sat in many departments of Russia, and we all wailed and cried, and said that we are weak, we are weak, we have all lost, in their documents that we obtained, it was all the same it says “The main enemy is Russia.”
I tell you with full responsibility, they remained the main enemy even then, because they realized that they had not finished them off. That is, their goal is to continue to fragment, well, they need to remove the president now, this is now their No. 1 task - to remove. It will crumble, it will crumble itself...
Valentin Filippov : It won't fall apart.
Leonid Reshetnikov : The former French Defense Minister told me, I spoke at the Paris Military Academy in 13, "We need to stop trying to make Europeans out of you. You have a different mentality, we need to deal with you differently." "How else?" "Divided into 15 states again."
That is, they already divided us once, took us away, but that’s not enough, one more time. We must proceed from this. In this atmosphere, in this situation, in these tactics and strategies of the West, we live and we fight. How we fight is another question, good or bad - we have already discussed that.
Valentin Filippov : Well, alright. Okay. Thank you so much. I can't say it's particularly optimistic, but somehow it doesn't sound hopeless either. If this is being said, that means we know about it, which means we'll think about it and do something about it.
Leonid Reshetnikov : And we are doing it. We will do it.
English version :: Read in English "What the Americans took, they don't just give back" - General Reshetnikov.