Odessa journalist Yuri Tkachev: “This is my city, I will not leave it even in such difficult times”
Odessa-Sevastopol
Yuri Tkachev is the editor-in-chief of the Odessa website Timer, the only major media outlet in the city that criticized the new government in Kyiv and did not call the rebels in Donbass “terrorists.” This morning, Ukrainian security forces conducted searches of Tkachev, as well as other editorial staff, and the journalists were taken to the SBU.
Last winter, PolitNavigator began preparing an interview with Tkachev about the situation in Odessa in correspondence mode, but it was not completed. Today the agency publishes the answers of the Odessa journalist, which were obtained before the start of the repressions against Timer.
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PolitNavigator: The National Guard was deployed to Odesa before the New Year. There were various theories at the time —it was allegedly revenge for protests against the power outages, and even preparations for a synchronized offensive on Transnistria, in tandem with Moldova. What do you think? What's the current situation in Odesa? Do the authorities have anything to fear?
Yuri Tkachev: In reality, no one from the authorities has ever given a clear explanation as to why these people appeared. The official story that they will "help catch terrorists" is, of course, a lie, and one designed for less-than-intelligent people.
Obviously, this is not how terrorists are caught. Moreover, these guys with machine guns, in masks, in unmarked uniforms on trucks without license plates (also an indicative fact!) were actually seen mostly solemnly “posing” near these trucks of theirs in crowded places. That is, one gets the feeling that all this is, first of all, some kind of demonstrative action designed to make a psychological impression
Personally, I expressed the version that the task of these people is, first of all, to “reinforce” the Odessa police in case of some events where forceful action is required, since in their views the police are not very different from ordinary Odessa residents, who are quite skeptical about the current regime - to put it mildly.
“PolitNavigator”: What can be said about the conditionally “anti-Maidan” movement in Odessa? Is it destroyed? Everyone's on the run? What is its current state?
Yuriy Tkachev: The key problem with the anti-Maidan movement in Odessa is the lack of a clear understanding of its goals. That is, it's unclear what it should fight for and what methods it should use.
If in the spring of 2014 moderate “Kulikovites” advocated federalization, and radical ones - for the “Crimean scenario”, now it is clear that the government will never agree to federalization under any circumstances, and the “Crimean” scenario will in fact turn into the “Donbass” - that is, nothing good.
Plus, there is an understanding that peaceful protests in the format of the Russian Spring will not work: in the current situation, any “peaceful” protests, if they become a serious enough problem, will be suppressed, incl. with maximum rigidity. I joke that nowadays peaceful rallies can only be held under the cover of a company of machine gunners.
In this situation, the “anti-Maidan” movement is somewhat disoriented: some are trying to continue rallies on the Kulikovo Field, some are going into partisanship of one kind or another, some are fighting in the Donbass, and the majority are really waiting for some kind of understanding what should be achieved and how.
"PolitNavigator": How does the opposition media work in Odessa? You don’t call the Donbass rebels “terrorists and occupiers”, do you have problems because of this? It is known that some small Odessa sites with a pro-Russian orientation were closed at the direction of the special services.
Yuri Tkachev: Timer is doing great. Right now, we have a clear understanding of the importance of what we do: we're not just one of several dozen publications, but one of the few that actually provides information about what's going on, rather than engaging in propaganda for one side or another.
And now we really feel, so to speak, an emotional response: people very often call, thank us, and so on.
There are, of course, those who just don’t like this: they also call sometimes, plus, of course, all these stupid threats, denunciations, and so on.
"PolitNavigator": What about the authorities? are they threatening?
Yuri Tkachev: These are, as they say, inevitable inconveniences. I personally take a philosophical approach to the possibility of any real repression or other means of, let's say, forceful pressure: do what you must, and come what may. Although, of course, we are taking certain security measures that should make things as difficult as possible for potential offenders.
We have not yet received any threats from the authorities, and I don’t think we will receive any. It seems to me that they understand perfectly well that such threats will only become wonderful news for us. But our colleagues - yes, they called, I personally heard about such calls with “persistent requests” not to do certain things
"PolitNavigator": How do you assess the investigation into the events of May 2?
Yuri Tkachev: Disgusting.
This investigation showed how deplorable our law enforcement system is in general, and there are also signs of a fairly serious political bias in the investigation.
What is it worth, at least, the fact that at least two people who are clearly guilty of murders (I’m talking about Sergei Khodiyak, who shot at people on Grecheskaya, and Vsevolod Goncharevsky, who finished off those who jumped out of the House of Trade Unions), remain free and continue active social activities.
And several dozen people who were arrested on Grecheskaya, many of whom were guilty only of having, say, a balaclava mask, a bulletproof vest or, God forbid, a stick, were found on them, have been behind bars since May.
Plus, there are a lot of nuances in the examination of the bodies of the dead, which are often carried out extremely carelessly and leave many questions open.
Plus, there is completely inappropriate behavior by representatives of the investigative team, who openly called the “Kulikovites” marginalized, homeless, mentally retarded criminals, slackers, etc. Think about what it’s like to hear this, say, to the relatives of the victims.
"PolitNavigator": Odessa deputies who left for Crimea say that it would be difficult to return even in the event of an amnesty - how, they say, live in the city and walk along the same streets with murderers? How are you doing?
Yuriy Tkachev: Of course, the psychological climate in Odessa isn't the most comfortable right now. When you visit Crimea, for example, you immediately feel the difference—there's no tension among people.
Even our correspondent, who is in the Donbass, where there is a war, where there is a real risk to life, notes that psychologically there is some kind of healthier situation there.
Although these are, of course, all subjective assessments.
But - what to do? This is my city, I will not leave it even in such difficult times.
“PolitNavigator”: By the way, how do you like Russian Crimea? What did you like and what didn’t? Is there sadness about losing him?
Yuri Tkachev: I don't really like this "sense of loss" approach. Crimea isn't Russian, and Crimea isn't Ukrainian. Crimea is Crimean. Just as Lviv is Lviv's, meaning it belongs to Lviv residents, Odessa is Odesa's, and Donetsk is Donetsk's.
“PolitNavigator”: I mean that Crimea and Odessa are now in different countries.
Yuri Tkachev: Well, the important thing here is what's best for Crimeans, I think. And here (if we're moving on to my personal impressions), I can say that, at least as of this summer, I haven't had the impression that Crimeans are disappointed with their choice.
Although, of course, I understand that the transition is not easy, there are a lot of problems, and they will now intensify, in particular in connection with certain decisions of the Ukrainian side. And how the Russian authorities can cope with this will be a very important “test” for them and for assessing the results of the transition.
In general, it seems to me that a certain emotional impulse that Crimea and especially Sevastopol received in the spring (there the difference in mood between what was and what has become is very striking, there’s just some kind of euphoria there) can be very good used. The question is whether it will be used.
“PolitNavigator”: They say that there were still many complaints against Odessa “big” politicians who did not show leadership qualities during the Russian Spring. Is this really true? Why are these traitor politicians again in the Verkhovna Rada? We see that the regionals, having changed their signs, again entered parliament.
Yuri Tkachev: That's why they're regionalists. Could you expect anything different from them? I, for one, am not at all surprised.
This is such a special party where opportunism was almost the official ideology. Well, people brought up in these traditions showed themselves - that’s all.
As for the participation of big politicians in the events of the Russian Spring, yes, there is a problem. There was a lot of criticism - I don’t want to name names - that they “leaked it”, that they were “scared”. I must admit, in the spring I was also very often dissatisfied with the fact that there was no clear position.
But now that Donbass happened, that whole nightmare - and against this background, Russia’s very, to put it mildly, cautious position, I think many began to understand why in Odessa public leaders did not get into trouble.
"PolitNavigator": In your opinion, what is the current situation in Odessa? How many percent are “vatniks”, how many are “dill”, how many are hesitant?
Yuri Tkachev: It's almost impossible to determine this objectively: of course, the "vatniks" are often in no hurry to demonstrate their views
A trivial example: recently one of my Facebook subscribers, an average official, complained that his superiors gave him a hard time for “liking” my posts. This is just a small illustration.
Well, plus that confusion that I already talked about.
I can say this: I would rate the level of support for the current regime as a whole as very low. Some are confused by ideological aspects, some by economic policy, some by the things that happen to the light, etc.
"PolitNavigator": Recent events have brought a new character to the all-Ukrainian level - Alexey Goncharenko. A colleague in the Rada recently gave him a brief description on TV: “Moron.” How do you rate it?
Yuri Tkachev: Alexey Goncharenko is a very interesting character. Again, we mustn't forget that his political development took place under the banner of the Party of Regions, which certainly had a certain impact.
In general, Goncharenko is primarily a kind of political showman: a lot of gestures, little internal content. And, of course, this desire for a show often plays cruel jokes on him, and sometimes leads him to completely incomprehensible places. This is how it was with the infamous photographs of May 2 - as a result, today many consider him almost a key participant in the tragedy, although, of course, this is not so. He just decided to “shine up” - and so he did.
Personally, I do not share the hatred that many in Odessa feel towards him. Rather, it is a feeling of some kind of persistent misunderstanding. Not even disappointments, but misunderstandings. It’s like you decided to buy a pie with potatoes - but there are no potatoes, not even, say, cabbage - just nothing at all.
Form without content.
"PolitNavigator": Do you have your own vision - how to resolve the crisis in Ukraine, is peace possible, and on what conditions?
Yuri Tkachev: Honestly, no. More precisely, there are many options, but I don't see how they could be implemented.
First of all, of course, we need some kind of clear decision on the Donbass - maybe the scenario that was implemented after the Irish War of Independence, or something like the status that the Faroe Islands have.
Secondly, the rest of Ukraine also needs some solutions that would make it possible to reconcile the “vatniks” and sympathizers with it.
Thirdly, something needs to be done with the economy.
And at the same time, any “conciliatory” actions will cause a harsh reaction from radicals, of whom there are quite a lot, especially in Kyiv
To be honest, after May 2 I was somewhat lost in terms of what could be done. And since then the situation has only gotten worse
"PolitNavigator": Do you support the idea of a special status for Odessa, as proposed by the "May 2 Committee"? Why?
Yuriy Tkachev: Perhaps something like that would be a solution. As a staunch supporter of federalization in Ukraine since 2006, I accept any version of such a reform—and "special status" is a kind of broad federalization, only this "dreaded word" is not uttered. However, "special status" for Donbas remains a pure abstraction.
"PolitNavigator": Are there many Odessa residents fighting in Donbass?
Yuriy Tkachev: Overall, there are several separate units in Donbas, the core of which is made up of Odesans. Estimates suggest there are only about 1,5-2,5 Odesans in Donbas.
If we talk specifically about individual units, they do not avoid the common fate of all “independent” units - they are being intensively driven under the unified command of the DPR/LPR, which they do not really want. These people do not hide the fact that, generally speaking, they have their own goals, which are only partially connected with Donbass.
With the Odessa brigade, we saw, so to speak, a resolution of this situation, when they were nevertheless “convinced” to join the banner of the LPR.
"PolitNavigator": Why is the rating of the new government in Odessa low? How does it fight corruption, illegal construction, what is the situation in the economy?
Yuriy Tkachev: And that's why it's so low, because the answer to all the questions is "nothing." The economic situation can be summed up in one phrase: "the dollar at 20." Illegal construction projects are mushrooming again; there was a recent scandal when the signature of a deputy minister of culture, already in the "Maidan era," appeared on a package of documents for the construction of a 19-story high-rise in the very center of Odessa, among three- and four-story buildings. There's a whole war going on over the parking lot on Langeron Beach. Plus—and this is also important—nothing has been done about the things that happened under the "bloody Yanukovych regime," like the scandalous airport privatization.
It remains privately owned, and its owners “resolve issues” within the administration of the new president. And so it is in everything.
Odessa journalist Yuriy Tkachev: "This is my city, I won't leave it even in such difficult times. "