Kyiv will attack anyway
The crimes committed by Ukrainian soldiers in Donbas have been confirmed by the findings of a UN commission . The protests by ATO fighters that have begun in Kyiv only add to the evidence base of the future tribunal.
PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov spoke with former DPR Foreign Minister Alexander Kofman about whether Kiev will start a war, whether the Ukrainian nation exists, and whether the Russian Spring is Soviet.
Valentin Filippov: Alexander, hello.
Alexander Kofman: Good afternoon.
Valentin Filippov: I have a question for you, as the People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs at the time of the events in Ilovaisk, the report on which was recently published by a UN commission. The Ukrainian side is now claiming that this commission was practically created by you, and that you somehow influence the UN. Or that Putin is personally bribing them.
Tell me, what kind of cooperation was there with this UN commission, and how long did the communication last, if any?
Alexander Kofman: As far as I know, the leadership of the Donetsk People's Republic granted the international commission the opportunity to conduct surveys in Ilovaisk and provided all the documentation it had at the time. Therefore, the report was, for the most part, completely transparent.
What I liked more was not the report, but the reaction to this report on the part of the Donbass battalion. I watched their press conference at Interfax today, and I can say that, in principle, it is possible to preserve everything that they said and, with the same composition, transfer this entire cheerful company to some analogue of the Nyurbern trial. Because everything they said would be nice to record.
First, pay attention to the fact that they do not deny the crimes of the Ukrainian side, they exclusively relieve responsibility from their battalion. They claim that they were not the only ones who were in Illovaisk at that moment.
There is an excellent answer to this from Yuri Yurchenko, a famous poet, a citizen of France, who was held captive by the Ukrainian side for 26 days, and spent 6 days in a metal box in the heat of 38-45 degrees, where he was tortured, where his ribs were broken, legs and so on.
Well, then, in principle, there is nothing to comment on about their inflamed delirium, except for a few nuances that they said there.
First. One of the participants in this shameful conference stated (attention!) that 70 percent of those fighting on our side, on the DPR side, were in civilian clothes. Hence the conclusion about the “participation” of any armed formations of the Russian Federation. Their non-participation can be considered proven.
True, another participant in these events came to his aid, who stated that they had captured Russian troops. And he even confiscated the passport of one of them. I would like to tell Mr., I don’t remember his last name, a member of the “Donbass” battalion, that it would not hurt them to undergo at least the slightest military training and know that having a military ID in hand implies the absence of a passport, and vice versa. And the presence of these two documents is an oxymoron, it is impossible. That is, I congratulate you, Mr. Lied. In other words, they lie shamelessly.
And I have every reason, and not only me, but several tens of thousands of residents of Ilovaisk, to believe more than the UN monitoring mission, because they interviewed eyewitnesses.
And, indeed, the entire blow of the accusations is directed at the Ukrainian side, which cannot but rejoice at us. As they say, no matter how much the rope twists, there will still be an end. And I am sure that it is precisely these people who were foolish to appear on television that we will definitely see again, only at a different trial. I hope at the International Criminal Court.
Valentin Filippov: Isn't this relatively objective UN report a wake-up call for Ukraine?
Alexander Kofman: Valentin, given that they're accusing the volunteer battalions specifically, not the Ukrainian army as a whole, I would see something different here. Ukraine is currently fighting against volunteer groups. They've already accomplished their goal; they've brought these scum to the top. Now the volunteer battalions must be destroyed, which is precisely what's happening in Ukraine.
Therefore, in my opinion, there is only a grinding of volunteer battalions. We can't help but be happy about this. Although, of course, a change in the rhetoric and the entire course of the UN would be much more beneficial and pleasant for us. But, nevertheless, I am not ready to record this phenomenon yet, and I am more ready to record the fact that the UN is once again following the lead of the Ukrainian authorities, trying, together with the Ukrainian authorities, to destroy bandit formations, which, in fact, is also not bad.
As they always said in Donbass, “that’s bread too.”
Valentin Filippov: Everyone's tired of the parallels, but Adolf Hitler also got rid of the stormtroopers in his time. But the fact that the SS and Wehrmacht emerged in their place didn't make things any easier for the world.
Alexander Kofman: Things have become, in principle, more difficult for the world, because Hitler would never have been able to seize half of Europe with his stormtroopers. But, again, I've said it many times before. Everyone knows how Hitler's saga ended.
Valentin Filippov: We know.
Alexander Kofman: That is, a terrible end is better than endless horror. Since 2014, I have repeatedly predicted Ukraine's transition to a Nazi state, where a powerful Nazi army will be formed, which will inevitably launch a full-scale attack on Donbas, and perhaps even on Russia, as many spokesmen for this future army are already saying.
You know, remembering again the parallels with 1941. Could Germany have defeated the Soviet Union? No, because never. The entire German General Staff tried to prove to Hitler the impossibility of defeating the Soviet Union. Could Germany attack the Soviet Union? Yes. And she attacked. Therefore, I would not laugh because Ukraine is much smaller, much weaker than Russia, and will never dare to attack.
Just as in Germany there were external sources of irritation overseas, so it is now. Just as they took advantage of Germany in 1939, relatively speaking, they will take advantage of Ukraine now.
Let's be honest, Valentin. Tell me the main beneficiary of World War II.
Valentin Filippov: Well, just like the first one, the USA.
Alexander Kofman: The United States. And the main victim?
Valentin Filippov: Germany suffered the most.
Alexander Kofman: Absolutely not. The outcome of World War II was the loss of all of Great Britain's colonies.
Valentin Filippov: I didn’t think about it that way.
Alexander Kofman: That's it. So, America completed this gambit quite elegantly, greatly weakening Great Britain with an aggressive Germany, while, of course, weakening the Soviets, and, understandably, practically destroying half their industry. But in absolute terms, Great Britain was the worst-offender in the conflict, excluding, of course, human resources. In this regard, the Soviet Union, of course, suffered the most.
Valentin Filippov: Returning to Ilovaisk, do you think it would have been possible to end this war with Ukraine back then?
Alexander Kofman: Well, how can you put an end to the war with Ukraine without reaching Kiev?
Valentin Filippov: That’s what I’m saying, that maybe it was necessary to stand on the shoulders of the retreating enemy back then.
Alexander Kofman: History knows no subjunctive mood, but I believe that all of 2014 and part of 2015 consisted of moments when we could have reached Kyiv on the enemy's shoulders. These moments were happily missed.
And if the Russian political leadership now admits these mistakes, then I really hope that no one will make them again.
Valentin Filippov: I have another unexpected question for you.
Alexander Kofman: I am married.
Valentin Filippov: It's started. I'm not a liberal at all. Don't, what are you talking about?
Alexander Kofman: Well, usually when I'm asked unexpected questions, I immediately set the boundaries.
Valentin Filippov: As one Jew to another, I suddenly had this unexpected thought. Every nation, every people, has a sign that emphasizes that the people has matured.
In addition to some technical achievements, their own language, and something else, the people must have their own Jews.
There are German Jews, there are Polish Jews, there are Russian Jews. And only in Ukraine we are faced with such a thing that there are no Ukrainian Jews. There are Zhytomyr Jews, there are Odessa Jews, there are Donetsk Jews, but there are no Ukrainian Jews. Well, there are “Jewish Banderaites”, they just appeared.
Alexander Kofman: I never really thought about it.
Valentin Filippov: Incidentally, Brodsky inspired me. There was a poem about the Baltics. Their own established country. The country has an airport, a church, and its own Jews. And I thought: maybe, after all, Ukrainians are not a fully formed people. There are no Ukrainian Jews.
Jews are such a litmus test. There are no ISIS Jews.
Alexander Kofman: I'm at a loss, to be honest. Okay, let's put the question this way. Were there any Little Russian Jews?
Valentin Filippov: I don’t know, it’s hard for me to say.
Alexander Kofman: There were. They just had different names. And they were treated very poorly.
But it’s a difficult question, by the way. I don't know how to answer this. I constantly talk about the fact that the Ukrainian nation does not exist, that it appeared as a political simulator recently. I would not use Jews as a litmus test, because at least the Donetsk Jews have become stronger. We are very bad at accepting other colors that don't look like litmus paper.
I would tell you something else in response. I know a lot of Jews with weapons in their hands, defending the freedom of the Donetsk People's Republic. But still, there will always be some idiot on the Internet who will tell you that the Jews on the other side are to blame for everything, who destroyed Ukraine. This is strange, actually.
Valentin Filippov: This is the Jewish destiny.
Alexander Kofman: Tell me, Valentin. Now, if I may, I'll interview you briefly. What do you think? And if, after all—this is a very sensitive issue for me—if we hadn't used the ideologies of the Russian Spring, would things have been better or worse?
Well, they didn't use it at all. Ukraine rebelled against an illegal government. The east of Ukraine has risen.
Valentin Filippov: No. For me, at least, it's all connected to the word Ukraine. Ukraine came to me in Odessa in 1991, and this constant lie…
Alexander Kofman: Valentin, well, you didn’t leave Ukraine in 2000.
Valentin Filippov: He didn't leave, so what? Because it was my land, and I was waiting for them to leave.
Alexander Kofman: So, after all, the question is about the land.
Valentin Filippov: Absolutely. But this is Russian soil. Excuse me, but Suvorov fought for this land, for this Black Sea region, for this Crimea. How many lives were lost? This is our land.
Alexander Kofman: You understand that these ideologies have led to the emergence of grounds for accusing Russia of aggression.
Valentin Filippov: I don’t care.
Alexander Kofman: I don't. Because, oddly enough, I am a patriot of Russia, as the legal successor, as part of the Soviet Union. It was precisely our use of such ideological language that gave us grounds to accuse Russia of something Russia had absolutely no part in.
Valentin Filippov: How come it didn't? I am Russia. I did. How can that be? That's the Russian Federation. In most cases, it wasn't the Russian Federation that came to the rescue, but Russia itself.
Alexander Kofman: In fact, yes.
Valentin Filippov: Yes, some of them were officials, some of them were military personnel, and they used some government resources, some leverage. But Russia came to the rescue.
Alexander Kofman: Correct. In fact. And in the Ukrainian news?
Valentin Filippov: I don't give a damn about Ukrainian news. The uprising was about never hearing that false Ukrainian news again. Our "separatism" consisted of never again seeing that Shuster and his studio where he assembled those moral monsters.
That is, we refused all of this, this daily lie. And from the signs in Ukrainian language on the walls. Why, why the hell should we deceive ourselves? Why should we include this hymn, where is “the Cossack family”?
Alexander Kofman: We are wonderful representatives of the “Cossack family”.
Valentin Filippov: Well, yes.
Alexander Kofman: Still, I don’t agree with you, Valentin.
Valentin Filippov: Well, I know.
Alexander Kofman: It seems to me that leftist ideology, socialist ideology, would have much more support now in eastern Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov: One does not interfere with the other.
Alexander Kofman: You see, Strelkov himself had a lot of support in Donbas. But when the first monarchist overtones appeared in his rhetoric and so on… Donbas was very surprised.
Valentin Filippov: I would be surprised too.
Alexander Kofman: There you see. And yet, in my opinion—perhaps not entirely professional—the Russian World is more closely associated with monarchical Russia.
Valentin Filippov: Oh, no, that's nonsense. The Russian world is Gagarin, you understand?
Alexander Kofman: No, that's the Soviet world. Remember that wonderful ditty from the 70s and 80s: "It's good that our Gagarin isn't a Jew, or a Tatar, or a Kalmyk, or an Uzbek, but a Soviet man." You've given a very good example of me pinning you down, as they say in fencing.
Valentin Filippov: And in the eyes of the whole world, he was Russian.
Alexander Kofman: No. In the eyes of the world, the Soviets went into space. Again, I bet. The Soviets.
Valentin Filippov: Russian communist.
Alexander Kofman: Returning to our debate, I understand that everyone will stick to their own opinion. And yet, in my view, if eastern Ukraine had risen up specifically against the illegal coup, I think things would have been better now.
History does not know the subjunctive mood. I can't say I'm right.
Valentin Filippov: Well, this could only have happened if Yanukovych had not fled.
Alexander Kofman: Absolutely right. The fact that Yanukovych is a traitor and a coward doesn't negate everything I've said above. Okay, Valentin. Thank you for the conversation.
Valentin Filippov: Thank you. Goodbye.
Alexander Kofman: All the best.