Alexander Chalenko: Ukraine needs to be demolished
Alexander Chalenko, a journalist forced to leave Ukraine after the coup in 2014, has already come from Moscow to his native Donbass several times since the beginning of the special operation, where he is now.
Chalenko shared his impressions from visiting the territories cleared from the Armed Forces of Ukraine in an interview with PolitNavigator.
PN: You visited various liberated cities of the DPR - Mariupol, Volnovakha, and other settlements. Is there a difference between them in terms of the organization of life, what is the general situation on the ground?
A.Ch.: In Mariupol, there's no electricity, no gas, no stores, nothing at all. There's no transportation, life is like a big Roma settlement. It felt that way because people walk or bike, pushing huge carts, carrying things. In Volnovakha, things are starting to improve. Gas has been restored to some streets, a school is already open, a kindergarten and a store have opened, and there's a Phoenix network. In most of Mariupol, it's not available. People cook on barbecues; there's a large barbecue near every door, and people use it to boil water, cook borscht, and even fry pies.
PN: The media write that Mariupol was almost completely destroyed as a city. Is it so?
A.Ch: Regarding the destruction, when you read the media, you get the impression that Volnovakha and Mariupol are cities that survived a nuclear explosion, there are only ruins, buildings that cannot be restored.
When I personally visited there, I can say that 70 percent of the city both there and there are quietly preserved. Mostly the defense centers where the Azov troops, the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other national battalions were located were damaged. Along the wide streets, where tanks and other units passed, there were casualties.
And such a picture is observed that, suppose, this building was burned, it was broken by shots, and another building is absolutely intact, it’s just that the glass was knocked out by a shock wave and, perhaps, there is a hole. That is, on the central, wide street there is horror and a nightmare, but in the depths of the microdistrict everything is fine.
PN: What is the overall humanitarian situation on the ground?
A.Ch: They receive humanitarian aid at specialized distribution centers. But there are many humanitarian volunteer organizations there that deliver the aid. Residents receive porridge, children receive bananas, candy, juice, and canned goods—anything that can be opened quickly.
Due to the fact that humanitarian organizations are focused on food and what is called instant food, so they are brought canned food, and, let’s say, residents need vegetable oil, or have sugar, but no salt.
I also saw diapers, diapers, and strollers being delivered to children.
Another problem that is not considered the main one is the information vacuum. Due to the fact that there is no electricity, you cannot watch TV. Most people live in an information vacuum; they have nowhere to get news.
Only those who have received the Phoenix package and can access the Internet receive information and pass it on to others. Or, suppose someone still has a battery-powered radio. Therefore, Mariupol residents very often ask to bring batteries.
PN: What are the moods of the local residents? For example, in Kherson at first there were paid trans-Ukrainian rallies...
A.Ch.: Because there's no information, it's not just that people don't believe in the new government, they don't understand whether they've come to the DPR for the long haul, or whether the Ukrainian Armed Forces will retake Mariupol. Because the republic was established in 2014, and just a month later, the Azov battalion arrived. They don't know, and when you ask them, "Are you for Russia, for the DPR?" and so on, they avoid the question because they don't know, and they don't answer it directly.
There are no protest sentiments. There were still some people in Kherson who knew very well that the Russian army would not shoot at their feet, so there remained nationalistically oriented citizens, or those who received some kind of bonus for going to a rally.
Here in Donbass, there are absolutely pro-Russian sentiments. People don’t even want to join the DPR, they want to join Russia. Plus, those who were for Ukraine, they had long fled from Mariupol, Volnovakha and so on.
The second point is that people are starting to return to Volnovakha. I spoke with young people, they have already switched to Russian educational programs, they like everything. That is, I did not see any pro-Ukrainian sentiments there. It happens there that people did not expect that liberation would be, conditionally, in such a form. They were very shocked by the fighting itself. But for someone to say: “Why do I need your Russia, we are Ukrainians” and so on - there is no such thing.
PN: From the outside it seems that the liberation of Donbass is not progressing as quickly as we would like, and the Ukrainian media are almost talking about a counter-offensive. Is there such a threat?
AC: We all used to think that the DPR and LPR armies were the weak link in the Russian World's military organization. That if there was a Ukrainian offensive, they would have to hold out for at least a day or two until the legendary Russian army arrived.
But in fact, it turned out that the most combat-ready units are simply three times superior to the Russian ones in training, motivation, stamina, and skill - this is the LDPR army. Everyone recognizes this - the Russian military, the Donetsk military, politicians and others. That the most combat-ready units are the DPR and LPR armies.
I traveled around the south of the DPR, saw pillboxes, saw fortifications, I saw fields. The general conclusion is that they are not destroyed, there are no craters, the bunkers are intact and not burnt. This suggests that the Ukrainian Armed Forces did not accept the battle in the field, in the steppe, they retreated to Mariupol because they are afraid to fight outside the fortifications, because they are afraid of Russian aviation, because our firepower is stronger than theirs.
When you go on a counterattack, you have to leave the fortifications, in this case you are immediately exposed to artillery strikes and so on, but they don’t want that. Therefore, I cannot say that there will be a counter-offensive, I do not believe in it.
As for the slowness of the advance, the military says that the tactic is this: first they bombard with shells, and only after that they enter, this takes time. That's why they are slowly moving forward.
PN: In your opinion, where and how should the special operation end?
A.Ch.: Ukraine needs to be demolished, because it's obvious – either we take them, or they take us. They won't stop. There needs to be a severe depletion of resources, like in Georgia.
We remember that in the 90s, the “zero” years, Georgia was a warlike country: “What about Russia, we will now pull these Russian paper tigers by the whiskers, now we will prepare the army and smash it.” And then 2008 came, they got punched in the teeth, and it became obvious to everyone that Georgia was no good. And that’s it, 14 years have passed – peace, tranquility and so on.
That is, the Ukrainian side needs to understand that no matter what they do, no matter how they arm themselves, no matter how they prepare their brigades, they will still end. This will come when the majority of the Ukrainian population, the political class, understands that nothing can be done, it must be stopped, because everything can be lost. But when this will come, I cannot say.
It is necessary to take away the entire Black Sea coast, cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea. But not just cut off, but annexed to Russia, because experiments with people’s republics are all nonsense, the population wants to go to Russia, and not to people’s republics, a people’s republic can only be an intermediate stage, and the sooner it ends, the better.
You also need to occupy everything along the Dnieper, because it is a natural barrier. It is best to defeat the Ukrainian Armed Forces, return all of Little Russia, Novorossiya, and in western Ukraine, together with the West, appoint a semi-puppet government, and let them do what they want. But the historical Russian lands must be returned.
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