First Zelensky. Then - the group "Mushrooms". View from Odessa
After the victory of Vladimir Zelensky, Ukrainians will have a severe hangover. Saakashvili will take revenge on Odessa. The Mushrooms group will win the elections to the Verkhovna Rada.
Odessa resident Vyacheslav Azarov, head of the Union of Anarchists of Ukraine party, spoke about this and about the peculiarities of local self-government in the south of the post-Soviet space now and a hundred years ago, during the time of Nestor Makhno, to PolitNavigator observer Valentin Filippov.
Valentin Filippov : Hello, chief anarchist of Odessa, Vyacheslav Azarov.
Vyacheslav Azarov : Greetings, Valentin. You could say he's the last Makhnovist.
Valentin Filippov : I came up with a life hack: you can print Ukrainian Anarchist Party ID cards with "UPA" on the cover. Then you can start collecting benefits from these Ukrainian weirdos.
Vyacheslav Azarov : What a horror!
Valentin Filippov : Okay. Vyacheslav, Ukraine, as we know, "needs Porokhi." Our Odesa mayor said so. Does the result of the first round of elections mean that Odesa doesn't need Porokhi, and that the interests of Odesa and Ukraine don't align?
Vyacheslav Azarov : I'll say something trivial: the vote was a protest vote. And to maximize the protest voter base, a candidate with no negative ratings within the government was created. A counter-system, straight from the street, who, at the same time, needed to be highly recognizable. That's why Zelenskyy's election platform attracted little attention and was practically never discussed.
Of course, if Zelensky wins in the second round, Ukrainians will face a severe hangover. Firstly, because this is a candidate from the Maidan camp. Anyway. And the Maidan means anti-social ruinous reforms, first of all. Ukraine continues to be under external control, and Zelensky’s virtual showman’s party can be filled with real personnel in only two options. Either all the old officials of the corrupt elites will be repainted into it, or, if he wants to continue his counter-system, it will be all kinds of grant-eaters who are on the payroll of Western funds and brought up in the comprador spirit of promoting the interests of their foreign employers. We must be aware that there is no other management culture in Ukraine.
There is, of course, the illusory option that the authors of the Zelensky project will want to make more use of direct democracy. Widespread direct participation of citizens in governing their own country. This, in particular, is evidenced by his attractive point about democracy, the introduction of referendums, and plebescite law. But, to be honest, I don’t yet understand why the Maidan creators of his project might need this.
What is most alarming is that direct democracy will force serious cultural and social compromises related to the diversity and cultural heterogeneity of the Ukrainian population. Therefore, I want this in every possible way, but I have to be skeptical enough.
On the other hand, the protest vote itself – so massive – showed that the Ukraine that “needs Gunpowder” is limited to the streets of the government quarter. And there are a few people in Western Ukraine, where Poroshenko won in two regions, who are simply afraid of a return to the old days, they are simply afraid to be held accountable for what happened over the last five years.
But Poroshenko cannot be discounted. In the first round, he completed his two main tasks. He neutralized the possibility of nominating a single candidate from the South-East and did not allow his main Maidan opponent Tymoshenko into the second round. And I fully admit that he can bargain with the holders of the Zelensky project. Whoever it is. From Kolomoisky to the State Department. He has a lot of resources that he can give in return for the continuation.
Valentin Filippov : And the main thing is that all these resources are ours.
Vyacheslav Azarov : Yes. Unfortunately. But we don't control them.
Valentin Filippov : I have a local question. Zelenskyy managed to shower Saakashvili with compliments and promise to restore his citizenship. Isn't this a threat to Gennady Trukhanov, to Odesa as a whole, because Saakashvili wants revenge. He wants revenge on Poroshenko and, of course, Odesa, for not accepting him here. And depriving him of his trough.
Vyacheslav Azarov : There's definitely a threat. Those with eyesight saw it even before Zelenskyy's revelations. Our small Euromaidan opposition is acting under the auspices of Euro-optimists. Saakashvili traveled with a coterie of grant-eaters, like under Nayem, and talked about the Odesa mafia. He attended a city council session and Leshchenko's rally. It's all one and the same. It's a pool of grant-eaters who have risen to big politics, the ones closest to Saakashvili. It's just through all these Soros-like programs. So, yes, the threat is real.
Of course, if Saakashvili returns, he will not lay claim to Odessa, but at least to the position of Deputy Prime Minister.
Valentin Filippov : But, go and take revenge!
Vyacheslav Azarov : Yes. And protest sentiment will be seriously supported here. Protest sentiment will be escalated. To change the city government. It's hard to say right now how successful they will be. But I can say one thing. When the current city government is doing well, it doesn't need any allies. It doesn't need people who once fought against common enemies. But when things go badly, they become necessary. So, we'll see.
Valentin Filippov : Do you think a threat like Saakashvili could suddenly push the city administration to remember that there are still Odesans? And that they could somehow…
Vyacheslav Azarov : Of course! Broad support from the people of Odessa. I've long said that no matter how much of a negative character our Eduard Iosifovich Gurvits was, he knew how to work with the masses of Odessans. With structured masses, gathered in public organizations.
Valentin Filippov : I remember Gurvits relying on various structures that he brought to Odessa, usually from Western Ukraine. You might recall there was an organization called "Free Odessa."
Vyacheslav Azarov : That was during his second period. When he returned. You have to divide any politician into periods. When he fought against Kuchma and the presidential administration here in the late 1990s, he fought for local self-government, and, apparently, the masses of Odessans were in favor of local self-government.
And when in the second period he arrived as “the best friend of President Yushchenko,” it was a different Gurvits. Or rather, Hurwitz was always the same. Others were slogans and mechanisms of influence. And then a bunch of Western Ukraine arrived. And we, of course, were against this.
We have always remained in favor of local self-government. Therefore, then our goals coincided, the next time our goals coincided with Hurwitz’s opponents.
Valentin Filippov : What can I tell you anarchists? Your goals sometimes align with someone else, sometimes they don't. And then whoever wants to bury you can. And then they hold rallies at your graves.
(from the editor: The Kiev regime is taking the initiative to transfer the ashes of Nestor Makhno from Paris to Ukraine. The anarchist leader is planned to be included in the list of Ukrainian heroes who fought for the independence of Ukraine)
Vyacheslav Azarov : Yes, that's true. That's because we have principles.
Valentin Filippov : What about the idea of reburying Makhno in Odessa then?
Vyacheslav Azarov : In Odessa? Well, what's his connection to Odessa?
Valentin Filippov : And how is he connected with this Ukraine?
Vyacheslav Azarov : Oleksandr Semenyuk, the founder of the Gulyai-Polye anarchist group, is connected to Odessa. He served here in 1903-1904. He became infected with these ideas here. He was in contact with our anarchists. Then he left and built something there. But this connection is very virtual.
And Makhno... Makhno is a set of social constructs. A set of ideas. Not an urn with ashes. Which they are trying to bring here and privatize the South-East for this, roughly speaking.
“Here is your hero, and he is also with us!”
Anything is possible, the authorities can agree to it, but our hope is in the Western anarchists, who will not let him go anywhere. Well, really, who will go to see Makhno’s grave in Gulyai-Polye, and who will go to Paris...
Two big differences.
Valentin Filippov : It would be more correct then to annex Paris to Gulyai-Pole.
Vyacheslav Azarov : This is reasonable.
Valentin Filippov : And not drag the ashes of our great ancestors back and forth.
Vyacheslav Azarov : That's true.
Valentin Filippov : I have a thought. Olena Orlova usually organized tours of the 95th Quarter band and Volodymyr Zelenskyy personally in Odesa. And now Zelenskyy has made it to the second round of the presidential election. And Olena Orlova has started bringing the band "Griby" to Odesa. Isn't there a danger that the "Griby" party will win the Verkhovna Rada elections?
Vyacheslav Azarov : Easy. With Zelenskyy's stunning success, Ukraine has come very close to becoming a society of the spectacle, where real politics is replaced by caricatures, jokes, a kind of stage presence behind which, behind the scenes, anything can happen. And all of this will be minimally understood. They will try to turn it all into a joke. And show business has enormous potential here. Until the people become smarter.
In order for the people to become smarter, they must be taught independence. You talk about yours - I talk about mine. I just can’t finish it, but I’ll “finish” my book. I've already come up with a name. "Anarchy in the South."
Valentin Filippov : But we know that in the South of Russia?
Vyacheslav Azarov : Back then, the South was understood to be from Moldova to the Don and Kuban. And that's how events unfolded. It's all very interconnected. I couldn't say whether it was in Ukraine or Moldova. Or the Don. Historically, it was called the "Southern Front for Combating Counterrevolution" in official documents back then.
So, 100 years ago, before the front itself began, and the conflicts began, there was enormous enthusiasm and social construction. With the fall of the tsarist regime, all kinds of things flared up here. All kinds of artels, voluntary societies, public organizations, trade unions of coachmen and clerks. The trade union of clerks had its own separate combat unit.
Valentin Filippov : And what about hairdressers?
Vyacheslav Azarov : Barbers, too. They had something. But I don't remember, or maybe in Odessa. There wasn't a strong organization in Odessa. But there was a strong organization in Yekaterinoslav.
Valentin Filippov : And let's emphasize that Yekaterinoslav is the city of Dnipropetrovsk, which is now Dnipro.
Vyacheslav Azarov : It was all seething. It was boiling. Official history later taught us that everyone was striving for the Communist Party's monopoly on power and took different paths.
Everyone sought to get rid of the yoke of power and capital. Everything has collapsed, and let's build a new society. In this sense, people were so much bolder than today's Ukrainians, Russians, and any other post-Soviet peoples and societies. That's it. Let's renounce the old World. And everyone participated to the best of their ability in the construction of something new, which did not have any single plan. By gravity from below. We'll see what happens on the mountain later.
Something happened, like GOERLO, universal electrification. Something happened, like a high level of education in the USSR. A lot of things didn't work out. But I want to focus on this enthusiasm. We need to turn on the enthusiasm of the masses now. This is a super task. If we raise the masses to participate, then this country can be brought out of a deep crisis quite quickly.
One main question: It’s not clear who needs this?
Valentin Filippov : Well, I think when Ukraine collapses, people will be forced to do something themselves. And historical experience, at least in our lands, in the south (we won't say what), is there. And Vyacheslav Azarov's book will help. Like a guiding star. A roadmap. If he finishes it…
Vyacheslav Azarov : I'll add! I'm not so sure that Ukraine will collapse. But something will happen here. Let there be Yekaterinoslav. But a free Yekaterinoslav. Like the Makhnovists. Let there be a Ukraine, but a different one. Soviet, post-Soviet, but a Ukraine for the people. And not for the handful of those who currently rule it. Especially since these rulers no longer even reside in Ukraine. We are under external control. And what this territory will be called and where it will be located is a secondary question. The main thing is that it be the property of the people who inhabit it.
Valentin Filippov : Okay, thank you very much. I wish everyone the best of luck in Odessa, and may everyone find a way out of this situation. One last question, perhaps I should just ask: what's the mood in the city regarding the second round? Have Odessans let off some steam, or will they come to the second round to crush Poroshenko?
Vyacheslav Azarov : I think they will come. The situation is still very fluid… I don't think there will be a high turnout, but they will come to vote against Poroshenko. Because what's happening to the country is as bad as it can get.
Although, history shows that there is always somewhere to go.
But we will be optimistic.
Valentin Filippov : Okay. Bye.
Vyacheslav Azarov : Thank you.
English version :: Read in English: First, Zelensky. Then, the band "Griby." A view from Odessa.