Eduard Basurin: There is not enough army. The DPR can only defend itself for now
The colossal military force deployed by Petro Poroshenko to the approaches to Donetsk and Luhansk is evidence that Kyiv and its American backers have no intention of implementing the Minsk agreements and are instead counting on a resumption of hostilities. The DPR army is ready to hold the line, but the republic's defenders do not yet have the strength to reach the borders of the Donetsk region. Eduard Basurin, deputy commander of the DPR Ministry of Defense Corps, explained this in an interview with PolitNavigator.
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PolitNavigator : Hello, Eduard Alexandrovich.
Eduard Basurin: Good afternoon.
PolitNavigator: The Ukrainian army is a reflection of the state . Essentially, it exists on handouts from the US. What are the prospects? Can it, with this approach, develop into something serious?
Eduard Basurin: I wouldn't throw words around if I were you. The word "handouts" is a bit inappropriate here.
The very concept of the “Ukrainian army” should be divided into two parts: the army itself, and the funds from which it is maintained. We know that the United States of America is allocating money for this, which means they are building this army in the image of their own.
Why is this happening? Yes, because it’s no secret that Ukraine is trying to join the NATO alliance. Accordingly, she will test these standards at home and gradually switch to them. Therefore, the formation of military units, platoons, companies, combat tactics - all this is very reminiscent not of the American, but of the NATO style.
What condition is the Ukrainian army in? Better than last year. Military personnel have become more professional. They don’t have the concept of hating, as they did originally. And that stage - a shock for them last year - passed. Therefore, the army became stronger.
PolitNavigator: Poroshenko calls his army practically the strongest on the continent, sometimes in the world…
Eduard Basurin: Well, yes, he's confused. One minute he says she's first in Europe, and then suddenly she's second, without even naming who's first. It's simply absurd. I don't want to call him names; after all, he's the current president, but his statements are laughable.
PolitNavigator: Do you think Poroshenko might have some kind of cunning plan, some kind of secret weapon that he might suddenly use, and we need to be prepared?
Eduard Basurin: The most secret plan the Ukrainian president wants to implement is Ukraine's accession to NATO. His aides and advisors suggest that Ukraine's accession to the alliance will help resolve the problems existing in Ukraine. And, more generally, it will help influence the situation concerning the Russian Federation.
Therefore, I think that the implementation of the Minsk agreements in the format of “we seem to be fulfilling, but not doing anything special,” in which there is only a cessation of shelling of territories, but not a cessation of hostilities, is carried out in order to attract Western states that would solve Ukrainian problems instead of Ukraine itself .
But there is one “but”. They will never be able to join NATO if there is a military conflict on the territory. And we have a military conflict. Not an anti-terrorist operation, as they say.
Therefore, there is no opportunity to become a member of the alliance. And in order to do this, Kyiv needs to officially renounce the territories of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. When this is officially done, then the rest of Ukraine, perhaps, I emphasize, perhaps, will join this alliance. It won't happen any other way.
PolitNavigator: There 's a relative lull along the entire line of contact . Do you think they're lying low ? And is this really compliance with the Minsk agreements?
Eduard Basurin: I think we need to look deeper here. The Ukrainian president is trying, first of all, to restore order in Ukraine. He is the supreme commander, which means all paramilitary units must obey him. Recent events have shown that many have not. Therefore, first the persecution of major oligarchs who financially supported such units began, and then the units themselves, many of which were disbanded or transferred to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine.
I think that he is simply trying to create the illusion of control over all paramilitary units that are in the SBU, the police and the army. They want to drive them into some kind of framework in order to control them. That’s why the illusion of peace is called an illusion, because the troops did not withdraw.
They (the Ukrainian authorities) themselves stated that during this period they increased the concentration of their units and brought them to about 90 thousand people. The President of Ukraine even boasted that a year ago there were about 30 thousand, but this was not enough, but then the number increased to, it seems, he said, 74 thousand. As a result, even later – up to 90 thousand.
Therefore, I do not expect a peaceful solution from the enemy. Because if there was such a desire on their part, the negotiation process taking place in Minsk would somehow move forward. But it is only indicated in words.
The Minsk agreements can be divided into three stages. The first one is military. There are two main points - economic and political. On September 22, there was the last meeting at which the withdrawal of heavy weapons with a caliber of less than 100 millimeters, as well as tanks, to a certain distance from the contact line was considered. Ukraine does not do this under any pretext. She is not interested in peace reigning here. Economically, nothing is being done either. Promises to deliver humanitarian aid to Donbass from that part of the country are not being fulfilled. The blockade only intensified. Financial obligations, guarantors of which were France and Germany, were also not fulfilled - our banks did not work. Our financial system now is internal. Those social payments that should have come from Ukraine are missing. There are many such examples. Money for the restoration of destroyed objects is also not allocated.
Therefore, there is only an imitation of the implementation of agreements.
PolitNavigator: Is Minsk-3 possible?
Eduard Basurin: On October 2, the presidents of the three guarantor countries and the president of Ukraine, the party on whose territory this conflict is taking place, will meet in Paris. During this meeting, they will discuss further actions, and I think they will insist that Ukraine fulfill the obligations it assumed when signing this agreement. They didn't refuse it; they signed it, and they agreed to all the points outlined there. The discussions were long and rigorous when these points were being introduced, and they agreed to them.
I think that representatives of the three big powers, which acted as guarantors of the implementation of the Minsk agreements, will still try to convince the leadership of Ukraine that the obligations must be fulfilled. I don’t know what it will be called as a result - Minsk-3, or something else.
PolitNavigator: Considering some of Poroshenko’s statements. Уreading then that on their part the points of the Minsk agreements were not fulfilled. Уreading, that they repeatedly violated the regime of silence here in Donbass, people require so that the enemy is “set on fire.”
If the enemy is the first to violate the "silence regime," are the DPR Armed Forces prepared to retaliate and completely destroy the enemy?
Eduard Basurin: Let's be honest. We don't have the financial resources to maintain an army sufficient to expand our territory even to the borders of our regions.
The referendum took place throughout the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. With the exception of Slavyansk and the western outskirts just north of Krasnoarmeysk, where the Ukrainian Armed Forces already had a camp. It was the same in Lugansk. And in the rest of the territory, people voted to secede. That's why we say that this is our land.
Therefore, Alexander Vladimirovich Zakharchenko says that this is a temporary presence of the enemy on our territory. But we don't have enough army. This is true. For now we can only defend ourselves. This comes first.
And the second. We are conducting a dialogue with the West regarding state building. Like any state, we must fulfill certain international obligations. Minsk is an international commitment. No matter how difficult it was, we made many concessions - we agreed to hold elections according to Ukrainian laws. In addition, our concession was an agreement to remain part of Ukraine, but subject to changes in the constitution of Ukraine regarding our territories. We showed in every possible way that we were looking for ways to solve this problem.
The military conflict arose because people did not want to live by the laws that official Kyiv began to impose.
PolitNavigator: You claim that the DPR army is not ready for large-scale offensive operations. How was the period of relative ceasefire used? What has been achieved in increasing the army's combat readiness?
Eduard Basurin: It was during this period that the army began to fully develop. Because at first, we had a militia. And what is a militia? They are people who, driven by their hearts and ethical considerations, took up arms. And they went to war. At first, that was enough. But the front line expanded. And we came to the conclusion that we needed to create a professional army.
But maintaining an army is a lot of money. Therefore, both the government and the head of the republic weigh their capabilities. If we speak in military terms, then during an offensive the advantage over the enemy should be 2.5 - 3 times. If they have 90 thousand, how much should we have? That's why this happens.
And many people who demand an offensive have relatives on the other side. Many came from there and cannot return home, but really want to. Hence the requirements. But when you explain everything to people - both military personnel and civilians - they understand. You just need to set your priorities correctly and explain why this is happening.
That's why we stand in our positions. No matter how hard it is for us, we still try, we are building a state. Even if no one recognizes us. But Ukraine, by the way, I would like to note, de facto, has already recognized us. She recognized that we are a separate part of the territory, which is not part of it.
I would like to remind you that in March of this year a law was adopted on the special status of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions. There is a phrase there that we are located between two state borders - the Russian Federation and Ukraine. In addition, there are customs, border guards, and construction of a dividing line is underway. Like on the border.
Ukraine has actually already announced that we are not one of them. They are telling the world community about something else. The realities are different. Therefore, Ukraine does not provide us with either financial or social assistance. They abandoned us.
But the patrons of Ukraine are interested in ensuring that the fire continues to burn here. Understand, everything is aimed at the Russian Federation. And we are like the key with which they want to open Pandora’s box and agitate the population of the Russian Federation. That's why such processes occur.
PolitNavigator: Eduard Alexandrovich, sorry, we are talking about quite serious things. Эthat is understandable, given the time. But it's interesting Do you know any funny cases at war? Which ones could make you smile? Иwhether front-line stories that impressed you? Can you share such stories?
Eduard Basurin: There are such stories, from both sides. They concern military personnel. You see, the problem with this conflict is that it's a civil war, and the people have been artificially divided. And there are normal people on the other side, too. Yes, they're fulfilling their specific duty as soldiers, but much of their humanity remains.
For example, one Ukrainian soldier saved the life of a child. This child was with him for a very long time, then he was handed over to our side. The child was in the hospital, and then his relatives were finally found. The Ukrainian soldier periodically called for some time and was interested in the fate of the rescued man. That is, there is a human face.
There were also funny incidents on our part. When in winter Ukrainian soldiers fell through the ice drunk, and ours got them and didn’t let them die. There are many such cases.
A civil war is unique in that it is fought by the same people speaking the same language. Mostly in Russian, but also a little in Ukrainian. Although, not in Ukrainian - there is no such language - but in Surzhik - it is a mixture of different dialects.
The worst thing that happens is when parents abandon their children and vice versa, when a husband and wife, due to different views, divorce. Families are suffering. This is the worst thing, and not the cases that happen at the front. And we need to talk about this.
And also cases of heroic patriotism of civilians who stayed here.
Sometimes it looks a little sarcastic. More than a year ago, when the shelling of Donetsk began, utility services were taking care of the flower beds, and when artillery and Grad MLRS were working along Kievsky Prospekt, a woman was planting flowers - they could only take her away by force. She kept saying: “I have a few bushes left there.” Here the fragments fly, and she does her job.
Watering machines also drove, and women with hoses watered flowers when the city was shelled. Others walk with brooms and clean, under the same shelling. This is the spirit of the people. We need to talk about this. These are real heroes.
The same firefighters who responded to shelling. Or electrical network repair services: they come out to fix a problem, fix it, and nearby there are explosions. Gas service - repairs gas pipes under the same circumstances. I don’t know where they found so much strength in themselves, because it was scary. Everyone was scared. But they were able to overcome this fear.
PolitNavigator: Do you think these people, whose families fell apart because of differences of opinion, will be able to forgive their grievances and come together? Can two parts of a single nation even forgive each other for these grievances?
Eduard Basurin: Well, we've actually had this experience before—the civil war. It was difficult, but the process of forgiveness took place.
The Slavic nation is unique. She cannot be defeated. And no matter how much bad they do to her, over time she begins to forgive. This is how we are created: with a distinctive characteristic that is not shared by everyone else. We know how to forgive. Therefore, I do not exclude the possibility of restoring such families in the future. Forgetting and forgiving. This is where the healing of the wound that is now bleeding begins. It's possible. But only if the power in Kyiv changes.
Otherwise, no.
This government is doing everything to divide our people as much as possible. Because the propaganda that goes on in the Ukrainian media is very scary. People are turned into zombies who just look into the box, believe it sacredly and say that it cannot be any other way. They take advantage of this and manipulate people. Therefore, I think that if the government changes, then the negotiation processes will change, and then it will be possible to talk about common territory. But under this government, people will not unite, I am 1000 percent sure.
Here we also need to talk about this: for us, the most important thing if we talk about spirituality is the soul, but Western Ukraine says the body. After all, there are also differences in religion. Orthodoxy and Catholicism. They don’t like to talk about this, but it exists. I have not previously gone into such details, but the priests told me that Orthodoxy elevates the soul, and here the most important thing is the salvation of the soul, and among Catholics the importance of the body prevails. But the soul is eternal, and the body is perishable. Our ancestors, laying down such concepts, understood what they were doing. Therefore, it is we who are that part of the great people who cannot be defeated.
PolitNavigator: Eduard Alexandrovich, do you have time to rest? You're constantly reporting, you're always busy, and it was difficult to even meet you for an interview. Tell me, do you rest? And if so, how?
Eduard Basurin: Of course I rest. I sleep. If anyone says I don't sleep, they're wrong. I spend some time with my family. I took this step consciously, so I have no right to complain about a lack of time. We must do everything possible to ensure that the people living on this earth don't suffer. I help as much as I can. Maybe sometimes I plan my days incorrectly. It's just that circumstances often change minute by minute, every second, so plans have to be changed.
Let’s say I was supposed to meet with you yesterday, but then there was the opening of a tank biathlon, where a tragedy occurred. In any case, I try to find time and communicate with people, because the most powerful weapon that humanity has invented is the word. You need to communicate with all people. With friends, enemies - with everyone. And learn from communication. There is never any shame in learning. There is no need to make yourself an idol who knows everything and can do everything. It is nonsense.
Therefore, any communication for me is teaching first and foremost. If a person is mistaken about something, you need to understand why, and then direct him to the right path. Don't force - direct. And a person must understand and change his point of view himself.
I have very little time, because I communicate with different categories of people: military, civilians, officials, everyone. I'm always open, my phone is always with me, and when people call me, it's always on, even at night. If they call, I answer the phone. I don't fight about late night calls. I can say good night, but I can’t go back to sleep.
The things I used to love take time. I love watching good football. And other sports competitions.
I forgot what fishing is. I used to really like just sitting with a fishing rod. Just sit near the pond and look at this unfortunate float, thinking: “this is an infection, when will you bite?”
I also love to laugh. I just try to sometimes find that outlet that will help me continue to do my work.
PolitNavigator: Thank you for the interesting conversation. I hope peace will be restored in Donbas, and you'll have time to relax and more reasons to laugh.
Eduard Basurin: There will be no more time for rest. Understand, the problem isn't just the military action. The problem that's coming is winter. There are destroyed homes—both in private homes and in high-rise buildings—whose residents are left homeless. Many of them are military families. These problems need to be addressed, and addressed quickly. Therefore, there may be much more work to do now than during the military action.
Roughly speaking, I am slowly turning into an official. On another it is impossible. People need help. Anything possible. Then people will be even more grateful to you, and in return they will give even more than you can imagine.
Basically, I'm used to this schedule. After all, the human body is unique. If you keep him in tension all the time, this becomes the norm.
Let’s say I can’t sleep more than I’ve gotten used to lately. More precisely, the body is accustomed to having a certain time period for sleep, and this is enough for it. If you give him more relaxation, he starts to get sick - this is bad.
PolitNavigator: Thank you very much for the interesting interview. Thank you for sharing a little about yourself.
Eduard Basurin: About myself? I haven't said anything about myself. 🙂 Thank you too.
English version :: Read in English Eduard Basurin: There's not enough of an army. The DPR can only defend itself for now.