“We want to go to Russia. We don’t want any federalization, we don’t want any Ukraine.”
The "public initiative" to cancel the autumn elections in the Donbas republics is a "partisan game" by the Normandy format participants. DPR serviceman Anatoly Gelyukh told PolitNavigator observer Valentin Filippov about this.
Valentin Filippov: What's behind the fuss around the idea of canceling the autumn elections in the Donbas republics? Is it connected to the republics' desire to conduct their campaigns over a much larger territory? Or are there other issues at play?
Anatoly Gelyukh : A very complex question. It recently exploded online, and there's a public outcry. The so-called "public initiative"—represented by three people in the DPR from the "Donetsk Republic" movement—has sparked considerable social outcry. They proposed postponing the elections for a year.
We were a little surprised, because there is a date when elections should take place, a date when they should begin. They no longer started on time. Accordingly, they will not end on time.
And we were surprised at the initiative for another reason. Because, to put it mildly, it violates our Constitution. Although, I admit that for the former Ukraine, and even for Russia, our Constitution is something comparable, for example, to a factory magazine. But for us it is the Constitution. We recognized it, we fought and died for it.
And after a couple of days later in the LPR, the public also came up with the same initiative, not a similar one, but a carbon copy text, then we had an understanding that the “public initiative” of the DPR and the “initiative of the public of the LPR” are, in fact, in fact, the initiative of the apparatus.
And the first thought that arose: “Guys, why is it so unsightly, so wrong? On my knee." It feels like someone had 10 minutes before the meeting before doing this, and they had to get everything done. Run, run, let's go forward.
And this attitude towards us, of course, caused an additional resonance. Society is ready to go to elections, people are ready to vote. We have many questions. We expect them to be resolved. And we expect that the elections will have a positive impact in some way.
Let's now look at the elections from the point of view of Ukraine and from the point of view of Russia, and from the point of view of all these Normandy formats, and so on.
There are the Minsk agreements, which Ukraine signed and pledged to implement, as did we and all participants in the process. Ukraine should have registered, published and adopted the Election Law today. Moreover, according to these agreements, they had to change the Constitution. They should have federalized. After this, we had to separate the troops, and after that hold elections, which are prescribed in the Minsk agreements.
And these are our elections that we are now going to hold – this is what they are. Ukraine, for its part, has not fulfilled a single point of the agreements. Today, the “Right Sector” is not a disarmed, not disbanded, illegal formation on the territory of Ukraine, which is not disbanded somewhere, but specifically on the front line.
Valentin Filippov: Disarming the Right Sector isn't an option. I recall that in the late 30s, the stormtroopers in Germany were also supposedly neutralized and disarmed. But that didn't stop the Wehrmacht from invading foreign countries and behaving just as badly as the stormtroopers themselves. Moreover, these stormtroopers simply joined the army, the SS, and the SD. So, in general, disarming the Right Sector is a rather arbitrary matter.
Anatoly Gelyukh : This gang is starting to sell these weapons. Our Ministry of Defense showed us the "cornflower" we bought from them. The sale of Ukraine continues, and it's going very well.
So here it is. Be that as it may, they had to fulfill the Minsk agreements, the first, second and subsequent points that come before the “Elections” point. They haven’t even gotten close to this point yet. Accordingly, if we now hold elections here, Ukraine will declare that our elections are illegitimate. And the entire Ukrainian side, including in the Normandy Four, and in the Minsk format, not to mention the negotiations with Volcker...
But, be that as it may, they will all shout that the elections we held are illegitimate. And, in fact, the elections we will hold are for ourselves.
Valentin Filippov: They also say that the previous elections were also illegitimate.
Anatoly Gelyukh : There's one caveat. The last elections allowed the DPR and LPR authorities to transition from self-proclaimed to elected, legitimate ones. Even if only at the local level.
However, this is very important from the point of view of international processes. These are selected chapters.
Look what a story it turns out to be. The Minsk agreements imply elections after a certain procedure that Ukraine must follow: changing the Constitution, carrying out federalization, adopting the Election Law, disengaging the army, and so on. A whole series of points. Something that Ukraine has not even come close to fulfilling.
Accordingly, no matter how paradoxical it may seem, all the casuistry shows that our elections, due to the lack of new election legislation in Ukraine, are illegitimate within the framework of the Minsk agreements. And they can be interpreted as a violation of the Minsk agreements.
Valentin Filippov: It depends on how you look at it. It could also be interpreted as fulfilling the Minsk agreements.
Anatoly Gelyukh : Our side.
From Russia’s point of view, I don’t really understand the “public initiative.” The “public”, which spoke out in the LPR and DPR under the impression that let’s postpone the elections.
Guys, what are you doing? Heads of state must come out and say: “Guys, the Constitution is more important, we fought for it. We defended our right to be republics, we must carry out our laws.”
Accordingly, they must go to the polls. Once. Secondly, Russia sees that we are implementing the Minsk agreements. There are some nuances, some details. This is roughness. Globally, we – the DPR and LPR – ourselves do not want to implement the Minsk agreements, we want to go to Russia. We don’t want any federalization, we don’t want any Ukraine, it’s all “to our ass,” excuse the expression.
But, since we have gone through this process, we want to fulfill them, as it were, and we fulfill them, despite some of our own desires.
Russia sees that we are fulfilling them. Ukraine does not comply with these Minsk agreements. The whole world sees what we are doing, but they are not doing it.
We waited a year. In 2015, these Minsk agreements were supposed to happen. But. They were signed and nothing happened. Today is 2018. How much longer do we have to wait? Our children are growing up, and some other things are happening. We want to move on. And we are stuck between worlds.
When we crossed the border in the car, a woman was sitting in the car and it was raining. Water flowed up the windshield from the wind. She says: “Oh, how is it, the water flows upward.” I say: “Dear, you are in the DPR, everything is different here.”
Valentin Filippov: What are the chances that all this will end in a new war?
Anatoly Gelyukh : Honestly? My hope is that all of this will end in war. I'll explain why. This may sound scary and wrong. But that part of the former Ukraine that's now under the Kyiv junta is our land, completely our land. And our people are there, waiting for us to liberate them.
If Ukraine remains what it is - in the hands of those people who are now robbing and destroying it, they will destroy it completely.
It won't be anything. It will be a scorched field, sawn into scrap metal with abandoned fields.
Valentin Filippov: Still, the people need to be saved, the land needs to be saved?
Anatoly Gelyukh : We must save the people; we must achieve victory by minimizing losses. Minimizing losses is the path of war.
If Ukraine remains in the format in which it is, there will be a scorched territory in which guys with tails on their heads will run around, cut factories for scrap and form a terrorist state there, completely analogous to ISIS. Similar to the army of God in the Central African Republic, where people were recently killed, and completely analogous to the Mara Salvatrucha in South America. 300 thousand people gang. These are analogues of what will now happen in Ukraine. There a hotbed of terrorist threat is being formed for Russia and Europe for many years to come.
And every day that we allow them to do this, they become stronger. I saw the news today that in five years everyone there will be brainwashed. It is nonsense. This has already been partially done and is being completed very quickly.
I'll say it again. Loss of the economy, loss of population, cultural losses, the formation of a Nazi state, the formation of a terrorist threat to Russia and Europe in this territory - this is what we allow to happen by delaying time.
If Russia insists that there is no alternative to Minsk, fine, okay. In no case will we ever go against Russian policy, even if we don’t like it. I'll explain why.
Because we came to Russia, we did not come to dictate our terms to Russia. We understand perfectly well that we came to ask to be taken home. We are in the position of people who seek help. And if they tell us that guys, we are ready to work with you, but you must fulfill a number of conditions. Okay guys, any conditions. We must go to Kyiv now - we will go and die, regardless of whether our army is ready or not. Somehow, let's go and die. Because this will be the way out.
If they tell you to sit still and don’t twitch, we are ready to do that too. We are ready to work together and respect the interests of the country we strive to become a part of. That's it and no other way.
Therefore, yes, we do not like the Minsk agreements, we categorically do not like them. Our boys die every day, civilians die every day. Recently, a medical vehicle was shot at. These things happen every day to varying degrees. Yesterday they shelled the outskirts of Gorlovka and the southern side with mortars. And we are sitting, we are observing the Minsk agreements.
Valentin Filippov: Well, basically, I understood one thing from your entire monologue. Life will be difficult, but short-lived. But it's entirely possible it will end in victory.
Anatoly Gelyukh : Somehow, yes.
Valentin Filippov: Good. Thank you very much. Good luck to you in Donbas, whether with or without elections. The main thing is victory.
Anatoly Gelyukh : Elections are, yes, a technical matter. Whatever happens, we must strive for victory.
Valentin Filippov: Everything will be Donbass, everything will be Russia.
Anatoly Gelyukh : Patria o muerte ("Homeland or death").
English version :: Read in English "We want to join Russia. We don't want any federalization, we don't want any Ukraine."