Why Poland is rallying: Our man in Warsaw Mateusz Piskorski explains
The protests in Poland may have been organized to distract attention from the economic crisis. In addition, the Polish crisis may be the result of divisions within American political elites. The Polish authorities are openly provoking the continuation of protests.
PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov was told by Polish political scientist and, according to Polish intelligence services, “Putin’s agent” Mateusz Piskorski, why protest sentiments have gripped Polish society on a scale unprecedented in recent history.
Valentin Filippov : Our globetrotting studio is in Poland today, visiting Mateusz Piskorski. It's good to see you, Mateusz, hello.
Mateusz Piskorski : Nice to see you, hello.
Valentin Filippov : Listen, what's going on in Poland? I'm sitting here trusting no one but the Poles themselves, and since you're Polish, I decided to call you. What's confusing me is, look, people have come out, demanding abortion rights, and they've gone not to government buildings, but to the private home of Jarosław Kaczyński, the Deputy Prime Minister for Security. He's already an old man; it's too late for him to have an abortion; he's already born. Why go there?
Mateusz Piskorski : Well, why there? Although no one would think so at first glance, this man, in fact, according to virtually all Polish political scientists, politicians, experts, and ordinary citizens, controls the entire situation in the country. So it's no surprise that he's the politician they turn to.
Well, officially he just became, by the way, Deputy Prime Minister; before, he was just an ordinary member of parliament, but, however, the head of the ruling political party. But, nevertheless, this is his first government post in many years.
The fact that he became deputy prime minister, well, everyone understands that this whole scheme, everything that happens, is invented by Kaczynski, as the main, say, strategist of the ruling elites.
Well, of course, some orders come from above from, say, the Washington regional committee. But as for domestic politics, I think that most of the issues are really decided by this very person, so everything is correct, they found the right address, they turned to the right person, who are protesters, that’s why they are sitting near his house, that’s why and protest.
Valentin Filippov : Are abortions a reason or a cause for protests?
Mateusz Piskorski : One thing we need to understand is that the world is changing, and society is changing quite rapidly. In Poland, 27 years ago, in 1993, a certain compromise was reached in the legislation regarding abortion. Nevertheless, according to many experts studying this issue, compared to other European countries, Poland still had rather strict legislation, prohibiting abortion in almost all cases.
Valentin Filippov : Well, yes.
Mateusz Piskorski : The fact that it's become even more stringent now is precisely what triggered the mass protests. Because if you look at a map of Europe, analyzing their legislation in terms of abortion bans, Poland is now on par with Malta and Andorra—very small, very conservative European countries that, yes, also have similar legislation. This is a virtually complete ban on abortions; there's practically no mention of any additional conditions or exceptional circumstances that allow abortion; it's practically completely prohibited. And this compromise, essentially, which was created 27 years ago, was already irrelevant in the sense that, as I said, society is changing under the influence of external forces, of course, popular culture and everything else. Therefore, even this compromise didn't correspond to the public consciousness of new generations, young women.
Valentin Filippov : Well, yes, in fact this ban only applies to a small number of the population.
Mateusz Piskorski : Naturally. So, firstly, that's the first reason, and the second reason is that it all coincided with other, real reasons why people finally wanted to take to the streets and express their opinions. The government's policy towards the pandemic crisis is, to put it mildly, absurd and inconsistent. After all, Poles were convinced months ago that everything was over, everything was already over. No one even talked about a second wave, no one was preparing, unlike other countries. For example, as far as I know, in Russia, even in the summer, they were building additional hospitals and creating additional beds. In Poland, no one did this, no one was concerned with this. Because no one was paying attention; everyone was busy with the elections.
Valentin Filippov : Well, elections are sacred, you must agree.
Mateusz Piskorski : It is sacred, yes.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, but this raises a question for me: you were choosing your president. You had candidates running, percentage by percentage. And then, finally, you chose one.
And when you had a problem, and something was boiling over, you did not go to the president, not to the presidential candidate, but you went to the minister of security - on the issue of abortion.
Well, there is no logic, well, you have a president, you have a prime minister.
Mateusz Piskorski : Let's say in Iran, where do people turn – to the Ayatollah.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I don’t know, I haven’t been to Iran.
Mateusz Piskorski : They don't appeal to the president, the prime minister, and all that, right? So Poland has its own kind of Ayatollah, and he plays a similar role. Mr. Kaczynski. People understand this correctly, who really rules the country. Although, to be precise, it's not quite right, because they...
Valentin Filippov : No, well they won’t go to Washington, right?
Mateusz Piskorski : No, well, there is an embassy from which, as it were, various tasks are distributed…
Valentin Filippov : The embassy also has orders; they're not free people. They received an order, they summoned the President of Poland or someone else, and passed it on. The ambassador is a minor figure, he just passes it on.
Mateusz Piskorski : You're forgetting that we have US Ambassador Jorozhet Mosbacher here, a very colorful character, so I think she's already independently issuing various instructions to Polish government institutions, but that's a different matter. I don't think the US has interfered in any way here. Specifically, in these processes. Although many have already mentioned, and there's something to it, that the protesters' slogans are very similar to the slogans, even the symbols, of the Belarusian opposition. So there's an opinion that, in fact, what's happening in Poland is the result of disagreements within the American political elite.
Now, if we now observe there, literally a few days after the American elections, we will also observe, say, riots, attempts at color revolutions undertaken by different sides of this conflict, because the American establishment, in fact, is in a state of civil war among itself . And all this can also be seen in the Polish elites.
This means, let’s say, conditionally neoliberals, so we’ll call them, who are now trying to take control of this protest. In America, Black lives matter, remember, it all started as... And at some point, the so-called “deep people” took to the streets mainly with socio-economic demands.
Same as here. These women don’t just talk about abortion, they also talk about the pension system, the salary system, and various other issues in social policy.
For example, they quite rightly ask the question to the authorities, the government: “Okay, you’re forcing us here to give birth to children, but in Poland we have practically no, and are not building, no kindergartens, no nurseries, nothing, no infrastructure"...
Valentin Filippov : No, well, nannies are being brought in from Ukraine.
Mateusz Piskorski : There's not enough money left for nannies from Ukraine, that's all, a real crisis has begun. This government was lucky because they came to power during a relatively good period, from a Polish economic perspective: in 2015, GDP growth was 4-5%. Now we have a -9% decline in GDP. This year, due to this post-coronavirus and coronavirus-related, let's say, depression.
Moreover, this power (I don’t know whether they don’t have expert sociologists, or they don’t have knowledge of the basic rules of sociology) irritates people. For example, here in Poland we have a tradition of the so-called “Feast of All Saints” on November 1 - everyone goes to cemeteries, remembers their ancestors and everything else. We literally, well, practically on the eve of this holiday, the Prime Minister announces that all, all cemeteries will be closed.
Valentin Filippov : Don't you think they're doing this on purpose, that they're not thoughtless, that they're not stupid, that they simply have this goal? Perhaps they didn't come up with this goal. Perhaps they received orders, perhaps, as you say, various forces are squabbling in Washington, and they're giving orders accordingly.
The authorities, maybe I’m talking about this not only about Poland, but their task now is to shake up the people. Because I have the impression that in many countries, in many states, the authorities are swinging the people against themselves.
Mateusz Piskorski : I agree, but political elites must still have a basic instinct for self-preservation…
Valentin Filippov : I've already thought about this. But he's not here. Maybe there's something we don't know.
Mateusz Piskorski : There's a theory. Some say Kaczyński has completely lost his mind and all that, that he should be sent straight to a mental hospital, and that he will soon be. His closest associates understand this, and that all that needs to be done is, ultimately, to get rid of this man, because he's insane, inadequate. But there are also those who consider him a political genius. They argue, for example, that since the government is perfectly aware of what will happen to the Polish economy, they're trying to really destabilize the situation, they're trying to bring society to such a state that they'll simply be overthrown, and then they'll try to call early elections, parliamentary elections, simply hand over power to the current, current opposition, and then...
Valentin Filippov : But keeping the levers, naturally...
Mateusz Piskorski : Well, and then, of course, wait two years and say, "Okay, look, we have a profound crisis here. This opposition, they wanted power so badly, but they still couldn't do it." That's the theory, but it depends on how much we consider Kaczyński a genius and how much we consider him simply crazy.
Valentin Filippov : Well, it depends on the result.
Mateusz Piskorski : There's no clear answer yet. What's clear is that the ruling Law and Justice party's approval ratings have fallen by 15% in the space of a week. Honestly, this has never happened before. Plus, we understand that other social groups, even other social strata, are joining these women and these issues related to, I would say, cultural and moral values, which all these protests have been about. For example, entrepreneurs are joining in, because, as I already mentioned, the ban on visiting cemeteries. A simple example: people had small businesses, they sold flowers, wreaths, candles, and everything else, just before this holiday. There's a whole industry of these small entrepreneurs who do just that, and as you can well understand...
Valentin Filippov : They wait for this day all year.
Mateusz Piskorski : Yes, and they were ruined. They were all in debt, they were buying these goods to sell within a few days. They were simply ruined without offering anything in return, no compensation. So, more and more of these narrow, let's say, social groups are emerging that will express their discontent. We have practically a lockdown in many industries, take the lockdown associated with the closure of all restaurants. Here's another group, several hundred thousand people, I mean both employees and owners of these small cafes, restaurants, and everything else. They all join these protests, so this protest was the largest. It is the largest in the entire modern history of Poland over the past 30 years. If I were walking one fine day, I went to a small regional center – 26000 residents – and I look, and there are 500-600 people protesting in the regional centers. We're not even talking about regional centers, let alone the capital. Warsaw attracts 120000-150000 people. That simply hasn't happened before.
Valentin Filippov : I'll tell you that if Ukrainian sociologists from Maidan had also counted this, they would have had 15 million.
Mateusz Piskorski : No, you see, there's a special program, a special software, which you can use practically on your own, and with the help of specialists who understand how to use it, you can even calculate the approximate number of protesters based on a photograph posted online. It's a lot.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I understand, that’s a lot.
Mateusz Piskorski : Yes, the Poles didn’t protest at all…
Valentin Filippov : I’m saying here: “So many people don’t gather for football.”
Mateusz Piskorski : Naturally. And by the way, it's telling that football fans, who have always supported…
Valentin Filippov : Protests.
Mateusz Piskorski : Let's say the far-right parties supported the conservatives, but now there's a lot of information about football fans from different cities actually joining the protests.
Valentin Filippov : At least they participate in the riots.
Mateusz Piskorski : They enjoy it, it's their hobby, so to speak, so yes. But one way or another, whether it was spontaneous or deliberately planned, or not, we don't know yet, but it still managed to stir things up to a degree no one even expected.
I think there is another conspiracy theory. By the way, we will see after some time how justified it is, that other, more important things are being done here. Other more important decisions are being made, and in order to simply create this reformation fog, they figured out how to shake things up.
They were rocking it, they will settle their affairs there on the sly, no one will pay attention to it. Well, there are such theories. Many people there are simply trying to explain it all.
But to be honest, at one time I had to participate in several meetings at which Jaroslaw Kaczynski was present. I really think that this person is quite difficult to understand. I mean, he's unpredictable, completely unpredictable, so I don't rule out that it's not planned, it's just a matter of his political madness.
Valentin Filippov : Got it. Okay, thank you, I've figured it out a bit. I think I can suggest a new idea to Jarosław Kaczynski: after banning abortion, we should also ban the termination of sexual intercourse. This would affect practically everyone.
Mateusz Piskorski : To stir things up even more.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, yes. And then we can also impose restrictions on interrupting foreplay and even a ban on interrupting an invitation to dance at a disco.
Mateusz Piskorski : Good idea.
Valentin Filippov : Then it will affect everyone.
Mateusz Piskorski : It's interesting to watch this now. I recommend everyone pay attention to what happens in Poland in the coming weeks.
Valentin Filippov : And watch all this from a safe distance.
Mateusz Piskorski : Yes, you're right. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do that.
Valentin Filippov : It's okay, it's okay. The heavy borders will fall. We'll slip through.
Mateusz Piskorski : Once upon a time, yes.
Why Poland is protesting: Our man in Warsaw, Mateusz Piskorski, explains