Mikhail Delyagin: Ukraine is an empty place that imagines itself as a state
Russia and Germany benefit from the delay in the launch of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline - this allows Moscow to maintain record high gas prices, and Berlin to confirm its status as a key player in the European Union, making the rest of the EU member states dependent. At the same time, the fate of the Ukrainian gas transportation system is predetermined - after the launch of SP-2, it will be possible to lay out only the largest and rustiest emblem of the “Independence”, for other purposes it will no longer be useful, as evidenced by Hungary, which has already begun to receive Russian gas bypassing Ukraine.
Economist Mikhail Delyagin, elected to the new State Duma from the A Just Russia party, stated this in an interview with PolitNavigator.
PN: The price of gas this year is breaking all records – it has already exceeded a thousand dollars. What should Europe prepare for? Will it have a cold winter if Nord Stream 2 is not put into operation?
M.D.: Europe's problems shouldn't be exaggerated. Yes, prices are exorbitant. It's true that it won't be possible to fill gas storage facilities to capacity. But the standards for gas storage were calculated at a time when engineers still existed in Europe, with some margin. Therefore, theoretically, it's safe to assume that Europe will have enough gas.
There is definitely enough gas for Germany, and the rest doesn’t really bother her, because she will resell this gas - therefore, the worse it is in Europe, the higher Germany’s profits.
Therefore, the Germans don’t have to rush too much; their position is absolutely in solidarity with Gazprom. There is enough gas for Germany, and let the rest dance as they please. And let them understand that the main people in Europe are the Germans, not the Americans.
PN: Should we expect that high prices will spur SP-2 certification?
M.D.: Firstly, the Germans don't want to quarrel with the Americans. They still don't know what kind of government they'll have. The coalition will be decided by the Greens and the Liberals, that is, those who finished third and fourth. There's a haggling process going on there right now, so I wouldn't expect the Nord Stream process to be rushed. It's certainly needed in Europe, but those who really matter in Europe—us and the Germans—have absolutely no reason to rush.
PN: On October 1, gas, in accordance with the agreements reached earlier between Hungary and Gazprom, bypassed Ukraine. What is the future of the Ukrainian gas transportation system?
M.D.: The Ukrainian gas transmission system has no future. Pumping anything through it is a pointless risk. Meanwhile, Ukraine earned twice as much money from Russian gas. There was no reverse flow; it pumped this gas through its territory, consumed it domestically, and then pretended to pump it to Europe, only to return it somehow and charge for pumping our gas through the part of its gas transmission system it wasn't intended for.
If the hydraulic structure is empty, then, as is known, it is destroyed. So, I think that the Ukrainians will now lay out the world’s largest trident from the pipes of their gas transportation system, as is their fashion. True, the trident will turn out to be rusty, but that’s okay. And then they will sell it for scrap metal - why waste it in vain.
PN: According to Ukraine, Hungary betrayed it...
M.D.: Hungary has already begun receiving gas bypassing Ukraine, not through Nord Stream, but through Turkish Stream. So the Ukrainian opinion is the opinion of people who can't read and who, in their entire existence, have never kept their word. So they can roll their opinion into a tube and stick it in any part of their body they like – that's all the Ukrainian opinion is good for.
Ukraine is an empty place that imagines itself as a state.
PN: Speaking of Turkey, the United States threatens it with sanctions if it purchases the next batch of S-400 air defense systems. Why? After all, Washington and Ankara are NATO partners.
M.D.: There's a principle of subordination. There's NATO, the master, and then there are NATO's vassals. When Turkey itself buys weapons, especially Russian ones rather than American ones, that borders on criminal.
There are unlikely to be sanctions - this will be an invitation to Erdogan to bargain. There is a very complex tangle of interests there – American, English and Turkish. Because the “Great Turan” project, which Erdogan convincingly demonstrates, is an English project, and the Americans are not at all interested in the strengthening of England.
Nothing can be predicted here, but in any case, this is not a conversation about the fact that Turkey should not buy Russian missiles, but that Turkey should obey the Americans, and Erdogan is trying to portray at least some kind of independence.
PN: We sell gas and missile systems to the Turks, we meet with the president, but he does not recognize Crimea as Russian and supplies weapons to Ukraine - do you think this meets our national interests?
M.D.: The Turks are profiting, and our Russian officials are eating into it all. If it's possible to extract profit from people who seem very strange and determine our foreign policy, then why not?
Our benefit here is absolutely negligible. Moreover, there is a threat of technology leakage. Even if it is a worthless export option, the Americans will still get something to study. And in a situation where Turkey produces and services Bayraktars on the territory of Ukraine, and we have a nice trade with it, despite the fact that these Bayraktars could begin to destroy Donetsk and Lugansk at any moment, I don’t understand what kind of diplomacy this is. .
We supply gas to Turkey and immediately build a nuclear power plant there so that Turkey needs our gas less. Moreover, we are building in such a way that we simply give them 23 billion dollars in exchange for a promise that they will return it to us someday.
Forgive me, I understand where Turkey’s national interests lie here, but I would like to know if anyone in Moscow seriously thinks about Russia’s national interests?
PN: Let's turn to Crimea - recently there was a wave of resignations in the government of the republic, some officials were detained and criminal cases were opened. Seven years after reunification, has the peninsula become a showcase of Russia?
M.D.: Crimea has already become, to some extent, a showcase for Russia—it's comparable to the Ukrainian period, but, for example, Sberbank and many other companies don't operate there. As for arrests, as I understand it, the problem is that they're fighting corrupt officials there, not corruption, as is the case throughout the Russian Federation. And if you fight corrupt officials, not corruption, then you're simply replacing one corrupt official with another.
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