“Ukraine is coming to sobering up. But this is not a turn towards Russia."
Releasing all political prisoners is something Volodymyr Zelenskyy can do without hurting his own pocket. Ukraine must end the geopolitical slave trade. Kyiv-based journalist Volodymyr Skachko , who is wanted by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) for malicious group separatism by prior conspiracy, spoke to PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov about the mood in Kyiv, where favorable attitudes toward Russians and all Russians prevail, but where the perception is still that "Putin has attacked."
Valentin Filippov : Few people know that during the construction of the Kyiv metro, a special line was built to the Moscow metro. It is thanks to this that we can welcome to Moscow the famous, outstanding, iconic, and cult Kyiv publicist, Vladimir Skachko. Vladimir, hello.
Vladimir Skachko : Hello. Let's call it this: a free prison pipeline stretching from Kyiv to Moscow and, possibly, vice versa.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, let them search for that tunnel now. I won't ask them to crawl or swim, so as not to expose the border detachment responsible for that section of the border.
Vladimir Skachko : Thank you, I'm glad to meet my Moscow friends, colleagues, and comrades. And my Crimean ones.
Valentin Filippov : I'm glad you're in Moscow and not in prison. We certainly won't break the Ukrainians' psyche by telling them Moscow is better than Ukraine. But it's definitely better than prison. Tell me, the debates have taken place, and the elections are taking place on Sunday. We'll know the official results soon. Could the outcome of the race somehow affect your situation, or the situation of prisoners in Ukraine?
Vladimir Skachko : I only hope so. And I hope not only because Zelenskyy is much smarter than many give him credit for. That's the first point. The second point is to remove from Poroshenko's Ukraine the filth of repression, anti-democratic practices, and absolute idiocy in persecuting dissent. This is the cheapest thing Zelenskyy can do without hurting his own wallet, his own image, or his own reputation. It costs him nothing; he can command law enforcement agencies, the Prosecutor General's Office, without even replacing them. He can say, "Stop all these far-fetched political cases, because Ukraine cannot present itself to the world as an undemocratic state... that's not what the Maidan stood for," and all that nonsense he's mastered.
And if this happens, this will be the beginning of renewal in Ukraine. The degree of democratic criticality, as I say, can increase significantly.
I repeat, I am not enchanted, so as not to be disappointed, I say everything in the incomplete future tense. May be. And I hope that Zelensky knows how to count, like Petro Alekseevich Poroshenko, and will understand that giving Ukraine a more democratic face does not cost him anything, and he will do it.
And I, for example, will be grateful to him. And a huge number of people. Kyiv, Donetsk, they are more or less promoted, but the problem of Ukraine is that there are hundreds, and maybe even thousands of people in it who were caught under these political vile, vile articles used to protect the Poroshenko regime. And in regions where few people know about these people...
Valentin Filippov : In fact, in Odessa, several times a week, someone is arrested on some idiotic charges, like terrorism or attempted murder.
Vladimir Skachko : ... he said something, wrote something wrong, and they pin this article on him and that's it, since there is no other preventive measure under it except keeping him in a cell, he goes straight to the lockup.
What's the difference between the suffering of a promoted person and the suffering of an unpromoted person? We are all people, and if we are taken from ordinary life, albeit difficult, but more or less free, we are placed in this prison hell, a Ukrainian prison, a Ukrainian pre-trial detention center - this is Hell.
Valentin Filippov : Let's look at it a little differently. Ukrainian society, some of it, is quite brainwashed. With tears in their eyes, they sincerely believe what they've been told, what they've been psychologically prepared for. For them, letting us all go, well, our comrades, is quite bizarre, because they believe that first, "Putin must let go of all the free Ukrainians he's captured."
And each of our prisoners is followed by a trail of rumors. Why is he sitting? Well, he is in prison, firstly, because he attempted to assassinate Ukraine, and, secondly, because until such and such is released, in Russia or the DPR we cannot release this.
Vladimir Skachko : Stupid. I think if someone, like Zelensky, were the first to do this, it would initially be a shock, and then it would confirm that, by and large, political repression in Ukraine is a completely fabricated phenomenon. It's like using the law as a cudgel. They'd twist it, and use this law to simply eliminate people who criticized the government.
Valentin Filippov : Here is your accomplice, let’s say, with whom you planned and committed the crime….
Vladimir Skachko : Kirill Vyshinsky. But what crime?
Valentin Filippov : There is a firm opinion that he can be released, firstly, after he confesses and repents, and secondly, after Sentsov is released in Russia.
Vladimir Skachko : What does a citizen have to do with it? Well, I understand that...
Valentin Filippov : We understand that.
Vladimir Skachko : No, well, that's all I'm hoping for... When the shock wears off and it becomes clear that, by and large, it's all a fabrication, and secondly, the more merciful, the stronger... That's the first point. Secondly, it's time to stop this geopolitical slave trade between Ukraine and Russia, seizing people like valuable material. How are we any different from the ancestors of the Crimean Tatars, who came to Ukraine to plunder...
Valentin Filippov : Crimean Tatars are for Ukraine, and Muscovites are against Ukraine.
Vladimir Skachko : You should ask the Crimean Tatars who live not near Kherson, but…
Valentin Filippov : We should ask the moral authorities. Great ones like this one, I forgot his name…
Vladimir Skachko : Refat Chubarov and Mustafa Dzhemilev, they are the same authorities as... That's what they say, but on my shed it's known that it's written in three letters, I go up to it, and there's firewood, that's the thing.
Guys, Zelensky on the twenty-second of April on Grandfather Lenin’s birthday, he is either the Grail, which contains the hopes of Ukrainians, or a jar, bitch, for tests, and whoever runs first and shits there, this will be our Ukraine and Zelensky’s president.
Valentin Filippov : You mentioned Vladimir Ilyich Lenin's birthday, and I remembered that April 20th, Adolf Hitler's birthday, was a "day of silence" in Ukraine, and the candidates remained silent. Is it somehow connected that they're silent on their idol's birthday?
Vladimir Skachko : They probably do. The "day of silence" reminds them that Hitler, too, wanted to build a thousand-year Reich, and it lasted from January 30, 1933, to May 9, 1945—twelve years.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, but it couldn’t have happened without the Red Army.
Vladimir Skachko : The Red Army taught us new arithmetic, and—I don't want to sound pompous here, but I kind of like this slogan, as they say militaristically: "We can do it again." I like it; I think we shouldn't brag about it, but we shouldn't forget it either. And periodically, if someone…
The French sent us twenty tanks to the Russian borders in the Baltic states. They forgot how Napoleone Bonoparte crossed the border, they forgot how it ended.
Well, how can you stop a moron? Sometimes even the orderlies do what in the madhouse? It’s completely undemocratic to put on a shirt and tie it with the sleeves like that. This, of course, is undemocratic and, from the point of view of the LGBT community, completely intolerant.
Valentin Filippov : Vladimir, you're new to Ukraine, compared to the rest of us, really new. Tell me, what's the mood like there? Sometimes sociology shows that attitudes toward Russia are starting to improve. Sometimes I think it's just a ruse.
Vladimir Skachko : I understand the question. It's a backlash. For too long, they've been pushing and explaining that all of Ukraine's troubles are the result of Russian machinations, Putin's whims, and the aggressive actions of the Buryat-Nanai people. And after a year or two of this talk, the sick people become zombified, and normal people suddenly realize that it wasn't Putin who shit in their building, or Putin who stole from their wallets, or Putin who raised utility prices incredibly high, but that utilities have gotten twenty times worse. And then the backlash begins, a natural backlash.
Yes, the people are intimidated, yes, for now they are afraid to say that “you idiots, shut up.” But, nevertheless, this is a turn, not towards Russia, I would not like to say now that the Ukrainians will now gather and run together to hug the Muscovites, no. This brings a real sobering conclusion, which is that Russia is not an enemy. And it won’t go anywhere, and with such a neighbor it’s better not to wish for his cow to die, but it’s better to have normal trade relations with him.
Yes, besides, in any case, this propaganda, even the Maidan propaganda, began to show holes, these scandals began with how the heroes of the Maidan in the person of Poroshenko, Granovsky, Kanonenko, the same Akhmetov actually live, and when everyone suddenly realized, that “Guys, how did this happen”?
The poorest country - let the Moldovans forgive me - we live worse than the Moldovans, and the president in a year is ninety-five times a little pooh-pooh-pooh. Everyone noticed that public toilets began to be converted into Roshen stores, yes they are beautiful, yes they are licked, yes they are all done...
Valentin Filippov : But there are no public toilets now.
Vladimir Skachko : But the situation is, damn, Roshen is expensive to eat at, and there's nowhere to pee for the simple reason that Roshen is here...
Valentin Filippov : No, so what? He came in and took a piss.
Vladimir Skachko : Well, yes, but I repeat, by and large, 85 percent against Poroshenko is also evidence of a sublimated hatred and hostility toward this man. This isn't a victory for Zelensky. You have to see something visceral. The people came… those who showed up, 67-something percent…
Valentin Filippov : 63 …
Vladimir Skachko : And they said, "Dude, Petya, that's it. Goodbye. You're free to go." And the most interesting thing is, it's believable, because Poroshenko's negative rating is somewhere between 83-87%. That's sociology, absolutely democratic.… Even with the manipulations, taking everything into account, the numbers matched; you can't argue with the facts.
Valentin Filippov : Vladimir, it's clear with Russia. Do ordinary Ukrainian citizens understand that the war in Donbas isn't against Russian troops, but against their own people?
Vladimir Skachko : It's more complicated here, it really is more complicated. Even the seemingly intelligent young population, 25 to 35, who will inherit Ukraine, if it does, in the near future, are largely zombified. Blood creates certain sentiments. Half the people come out of the war as pacifists and anti-Poroshenkoists, while the other half come back anti-Poroshenkoists, but confident that they defended the country.
Valentin Filippov : Well, they fought there, they didn’t see Russian troops there?
Vladimir Skachko : They didn't see the militias, thank God. If they had seen them and fled like they were being held captive, they would have come to their senses faster.
What else is hybrid about this war? The fact that people are shooting over each other's heads, peaceful people suffer, this is no longer a civil war, this is already a civil conflict.
But at its core, they are citizens of one country, nominally, not nominally, for now we will say that they kill each other, and Putin seems to rise above all this. And so people come, they come as anti-Poroshenko, but confident that they defended their country. Because this is a natural defensive reaction.
Let’s imagine this picture: I spent two years in the ATO, I come back, and it turns out that I lost my job, my family became poor, I lost my nerves, and somewhere there I received a shrapnel. And it turns out that I threw away two years in the trash?
And here there is always a convenient shell: I defended my country. And this amazing complex of monstrous financial situation, terrible zombifying influence, and the absence of an intelligible alternative point of view creates this amazing conglomerate. And this must be admitted, no matter what anyone says. It will go away someday. But, on the other hand, there are a huge number of people who, for their own peace of mind, would rather consider themselves defenders of the Fatherland from an external enemy, rather than a fratricide who was sent...
Valentin Filippov : So, it turns out that, in principle, the population of Ukraine is not ready for the authorities to negotiate with the Donetsk and Luhansk republics?
Vladimir Skachko : Yes, I think so.
Valentin Filippov : But at the same time, they support the idea that Zelenskyy will go and talk to Putin. They believe there's a war going on with Russia, and they need to negotiate with Russia.
Vladimir Skachko : Yes, we need to negotiate with Russia.
Valentin Filippov : I honestly believe we shouldn't deceive the Ukrainians. I believe Russia should accept Donetsk and Luhansk, grant them citizenship, and integrate the militia into the Russian Armed Forces. Then everything will be fair and we can negotiate.
Vladimir Skachko : Well, there is such a point of view, and if you look at the referendums held in 14 in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, they voted for this option from the very beginning. It underlies all their aspirations and everything that happened there. It's a fact, and it can be ignored, as is being done in Ukraine, or it can be considered as one of the options for resolving the crisis.
I’m not talking about this now, there is also a Ukrainian toad. Just imagine 26 regions, well without Crimea, 25. And suddenly 2 regions get a special status, special economic preferences and new conditions, not enslaving relations with the center. All other regions say: “What about us?”
Valentin Filippov : We must give something to everyone.
Vladimir Skachko : That's why Minsk II isn't working. Because no one wants to set a precedent. Everyone understands this perfectly well, and the people entrenched in Kyiv can't imagine that they might suddenly lose…
Valentin Filippov : This is a capital-city tactic, it's the same in every capital. You despise all the regions, think you're feeding them, but at the same time you say, "Where to? Stop! As I said, so it will be!"
Vladimir Skachko : And these sentiments, if not taken into account when forming any scenarios, are a stupid thing. It's not partial, but if a doctor, out of concern for the patient, treats cancer with green paint, the patient will die, but the doctor will remain kind.
I could find other comparisons, but I don't want to go to the extreme. The patriotism of a journalist, the patriotism of a political scientist, the patriotism of a person who, one way or another, works with society, lies, on the one hand, in “do no harm,” and, on the other, in making an accurate diagnosis in order not to pick at the wound, but to try to find treatment.
I tried, they told me that I was a separatist. It is not a rewarding task to tell deceived Ukrainians, who are in some state of hopelessness and stress, the truth about how, roughly speaking, they were tricked, deceived, and continue to be fooled.
This is all that the authorities do - they rape in a grossly perverted form, but at the same time they do not apologize, but ask for gratitude. We tore your ass, but you get up, wipe yourself, apply some brilliant green and tell me thank you. This is the worst thing that is happening. An amazing tendency towards masochism leads to this.
A huge number of people, at the sight of Poroshenko, float like shit along the Yenisei and like this: “Ah, ah, our Petro, our Petro.” It is there. And, again, not seeing this is not telling the whole truth.
Valentin Filippov : Well, okay, I don’t mean to disagree, but I communicate a lot with Odessans… Well, thank God, in Odessa the people are a little differently minded.
Vladimir Skachko : The biggest oxymoron of Ukrainian life is the phrase in Poroshenko’s sense: “Odessa is a Ukrainian city.”
Valentin Filippov : Odessa is a Bandera city, he says.
Vladimir Skachko : When they say this, I don't mean to scare you with the word "oxymoron," but that's exactly it. But I repeat, the single rescue of the murderer Sternenko from the Odessans did more than any Russian or Vatno-Colorado propaganda.
Another thing is that the military didn't find and kill this jerk. I repeat, for Odesa, they suddenly saw that a man can stab someone, wound another in front of his wife, and then go to Kyiv and get an indulgence. And, what's more, become a super-activist with the one who decides whether to jail the Kherson region's leadership, whether to go to prison, whether to adopt a constitution, whether to reject it. Sternenko...
Valentin Filippov : Moral Authority
Vladimir Skachko : He's become a moral and governmental authority, backed by cool sugar daddies and protection rackets. So what, Odessa is stupid and doesn't understand?
Valentin Filippov : Odessa realized everything on May 2nd. How the murderers, known to everyone by name, are still walking around.
Vladimir Skachko : They blamed it on fools who disappeared somewhere.
Valentin Filippov : Why not? They didn't write it off. There's evidence, there's video recordings...
Vladimir Skachko : The mastermind behind the arson attack on the Trade Union House, Andriy Parubiy, nicknamed Speech Therapist, runs the Ukrainian parliament. What's there to talk about? Odessa, go back to Kyiv, and here's this guy who can't pronounce 44 of the 32 letters of the Ukrainian alphabet. And he'll tell you what Bandera is like… Bandera brought barges full of feces to Odessa. How? And even the most uninitiated Odessan will understand they're trying to screw him over and ask for gratitude for it.
Valentin Filippov : Well, alright. I'd like to congratulate you once again on your arrival in the capital of our homeland, our shared homeland, one of the European capitals.
Vladimir Skachko : As they say, we're approaching Europe through the roof. Thank you, I'm happy to talk, I'm ready to explain to everyone, because I always told everyone, "Guys, don't interfere with my journalism." And then they came and said, "Aha." As Yanina Sokolovskaya said, "Don't you understand that you're challenging us?" To whom, I still don't understand. "Ukraine and the president." I'll find the names of these "we," and then let history decide where they went.
But now I won't forgive. So they took it and woke it up famously. And there are more and more people like me. But everything I said has nothing to do with the choice on April 21. On April 21, Ukrainians must understand the main thing. Since it turns out that Zelensky should do this, let him do it. Let him remove this monster with his bells and whistles from the Ukrainian elite, take his place, and then we will see how to help him, or how to start fighting him on April 22.
I beg you, Ukrainians, residents of Ukraine, citizens of Ukraine, dear fellow citizens, do not be enchanted, so as not to be disappointed once again. Even vodka for salvation must be approached soberly. That's what I'll say.
English version :: Read in English "Ukraine is coming to a sobering conclusion. But this is not a turn toward Russia"