Bulgaria: Anti-Russian torpedo or 16th Republic of the USSR?
The famous Kharkov journalist, author and television program presenter Igor Perminov was forced to leave his hometown due to persecution by the SBU and the hunt for him by nationalist gangs. Bulgaria became his place of political emigration.
Igor told PolitNavigator columnist Valentin Filippov about how Bulgaria is similar to Ukraine, where Brussels and Washington are leading it, how Turkey is gradually increasing its influence on the politics of the Balkan republic, and why Bulgarian gypsies are afraid of Russians.
Valentin Filippov : Our virtual studio is currently located in Bulgaria, with Igor Perminov. Hello, Igor!
Igor Perminov : Hello! There is a city called Stara Zagora in Bulgaria.
Valentin Filippov : And here in Russia we have a city called Sevastopol, although some argue that it's not really in Russia. It is. I'll start with a simple statement. Folk wisdom says, "A chicken is not a bird, and Bulgaria is not abroad." Does this still hold true today? So, is there a sense that you're not abroad, not in the EU, but in the 16th republic of the USSR?
Igor Perminov : Well, frankly speaking, no. Frankly, this is Europe, after all, and many Bulgarians are sensitive to this phrase "16th republic." Generally speaking, most Bulgarians, even those of a certain age, live by the precepts of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. I mean, remember Putin's saying, "Those who don't remember the Soviet Union with nostalgia have no soul, and those who want a return have no brains." Something like that, maybe not the exact quote...
That is, people even of the older generation who remember the socialist period with warmth, and many things were better, and the gypsy areas, gypsy mahals, the so-called, there was a curfew, many things were more orderly, there was a more powerful power, but at the same time time, no one wants to go back. He doesn’t want to, first of all, because the children of these people work abroad. This is Ireland, this is Great Britain, this is Germany, this is all over the world. And the main, one of the main problems, one of the most serious problems of Bulgaria is the outflow of the population, moreover, a young population, and a capable one. People with education, young, viable, from 30 years old, and maybe even less, they leave the country, they do not see prospects here.
By the way, I wanted to say right away that there are a lot of parallels with Ukraine. Bulgaria is now, in my opinion, at the level of Ukraine during the Kuchma era. I'll explain why.
When we say that there are 7 million Bulgarians, well, in Bulgaria there are about two thirds of them, no more, the rest work abroad, come and, naturally, their parents are interested in everything being as it is... there was the European Union, and no one doesn't want to give up. Bulgaria, together with Romania, will probably be the last to leave the European Union, because, yes, there are some advantages, after all.
The second problem, besides the outflow of the population, is what they are trying to do from Bulgaria... I had an article, but it concerned Ukraine, in Vestnik Duma, there is one of the most popular publications in Sofia, it was called “Ukraine - an anti-Russian torpedo”... they are also trying to make an anti-Russian torpedo from Bulgaria.
Valentin Filippov : I'm not entirely clear. How can Bulgaria be turned into an anti-Russian torpedo if, as they used to say, "Why didn't it become the 16th republic? Because it's far away, because there are no common borders." How can Bulgaria be used against Russia? Russia is so far away from Bulgaria. How? What torpedo?
Igor Perminov : Well, not that far away, and in general, the Balkan region is quite explosive…
Valentin Filippov : Yes.
Igor Perminov : …it started the First World War. And Bulgaria is under very strict external control, just like Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov : So.
Igor Perminov : Of course, American flags aren't hanging on every street corner, but EU flags are, since Bulgaria is a member of the EU. Also, when we talk about the "16th Republic," when we talk about socialism, yes, it existed in Bulgaria, but it was a little different.
Valentin Filippov : Well, of course.
Igor Perminov : By a twist of fate, most of my friends here in Sofia, and in Bulgaria in general, are BSP, socialists. But let's not forget that it was under the socialists, under President Parvanov, whom I know—I met him and talked to him—but under him, a socialist, Bulgaria joined not only the EU but also NATO. And they're sort of socialists, well, kind of unique, not in our understanding. As for the Russophiles, yes, they're here, but their love is such... I call them necrophiliacs. Bulgarians have a very strong reverence for Russian monuments, like those from the Russo-Turkish War.
Everything here is done with great respect and love. But as for, I also wrote about this, monuments of the Soviet period, the Great Patriotic War, well, World War II, there are facts of desecration, and even here in Stara Zagora, the city is very calm, there are few Russians, this is not Varna, this is not Sofia , where there are a lot of Russians. There are, well, literally about 50 people here, if there are any, and that’s good. But there are facts of desecration and, so to speak, symbolism is present on the monument.
All this happened, I talked about it a lot, wrote a lot, but here there is a certain rejection. And, most importantly, don’t let Russians and Russians in general, in Ukraine, in Belarus, think that they love Russians so much here: you come, go out into the street, say: “I am Russian,” everyone will love you. Nothing like this!
Maybe we ourselves are to blame for something. Especially when the behavior is not entirely appropriate. Still, you shouldn’t go to someone else’s monastery with your own rules. But Russophilia here is more connected with the period of the Russian-Turkish war and liberation.
Although, on the other hand, if we talk about the problems of Bulgaria, this is the so-called Turkish influence, which is what they now call the 600 years that Bulgaria was under the Turkish yoke. In textbooks this is now the “Turkish presence”.
Valentin Filippov : They softened the wording.
Igor Perminov : It's hard to say. Officially, yes. But when… I won't name the institution, a very high-ranking Bulgarian institution in Sofia, there was an interview, and when I said I didn't know whether to say "Turkish timidity" or "Turkish presence," the person I was speaking with said, "What presence, timidity!" So, internally, there's an understanding that it was a yoke, but officially… I said, "Well, my son's textbook says it's presence." Well, we kind of laughed and left it at that.
And how the “anti-Russian torpedo” is used – now they say that Bulgaria is being used as a kind of mouthpiece. This is the expulsion of diplomats under false pretexts...
Valentin Filippov : Well, there is such a thing.
Igor Perminov : ...some other protests. And what started happening back in the summer, in June, when there were demonstrations in Bulgaria demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Boyko Borisov, it was very reminiscent of the Maidan.
Valentin Filippov : So, they somehow connect this with Russia?
Igor Perminov : This is an attempt to surround Russia with unstable states. Because what can be achieved by Boyko Borisov's resignation? It's all ongoing, but... you have to understand the Bulgarian mentality. If you remember, Lev Gumilev has this concept of "passionarity." Well, it's completely absent from Bulgarians; they're not aggressive. I remember the demonstrations before everything that took place outside the parliament, the National Assembly, and other government buildings. It's very European: a green lawn, 10 people standing with a placard, even shouting through a megaphone in hushed tones so as not to disturb the people relaxing. In other words, people are standing up for their rights. The police are standing by, and one person is standing by, completely calm.
And when these demonstrations began in the summer and even police officers were injured, this was clearly a provocation, and in my articles I concluded that the same forces that acted in Ukraine were behind this. But the mentality is different, and no one here will throw Molotov cocktails. Yes, there is nationalism here, they are demanding resignation, but no one is offering anything in return.
Valentin Filippov : Good. Now, here's something more practical, something that would be of interest to viewers from Ukraine and Russia. Has the standard of living in Bulgaria changed at all since joining the EU? Are people living better? Perhaps new economic sectors have emerged? Some, of course, have closed. Some are closing, some are opening. Have any new opportunities emerged? What has the EU given Bulgaria?
Igor Perminov : I can only judge from what my Bulgarian friends tell me. Life has become less secure, pensions are very low, salaries are low. But the thing is, one of the Bulgarian traits is cunning…
Valentin Filippov : … that is, the shadow economy is present…
Igor Perminov : ...it says everywhere: last place in Europe, and they cite statistics, like the minimum wage. Yes, the minimum wage is the lowest, but no one gets it. Well, at large companies, yes, salaries are completely transparent. Most companies officially pay people the minimum wage on their card, plus an extra 300-400-500-600 leva. So I can conclude that the standard of living in Romania is lower.
Valentin Filippov : Corruption is saving us again, right?
Igor Perminov : Well, how does it save... it’s not corruption, it’s tax evasion.
Valentin Filippov : This is corruption.
Igor Perminov : Well, perhaps. Bulgaria is very calm. Bulgarians are generally very slow and quite cunning. They find something positive in any situation. Yes, they lost stability when they joined the EU. Yes, there is very strong external pressure. I return to the situation with Boyko Borisov, with all this unrest. I wrote about this: what difference does it make who formally leads Bulgaria? The decisions are made in the American embassy anyway, and some in Brussels.
Boyko Borisov, he’s like a weather vane. He is trying and Russian pressure in the situation with the Turk Stream, which is now called the South Stream, the Balkan Stream, he is trying to maneuver and, nevertheless, keep the promises that he gave to Putin, that he gave to Russia, and, at the same time, he is subject to enormous pressure from the Americans. There is no politics here, there is economics. The Americans are promoting their shale gas. They're stuck and you can't turn them around.
Valentin Filippov : Well, that's clear.
Igor Perminov : He's trying to maneuver, and quite successfully. Anyone else, with any different views, taking his place, would do the same. Because otherwise, either part of the economy will collapse, or he'll be simply destroyed.
Valentin Filippov : So, basically, the situation with Bulgaria is the same as with Germany. There's a struggle going on right now, pressure is being put on Bulgaria to prevent it from allowing Russian gas into Europe from the south under any circumstances.
Igor Perminov : They'll let it in already. The Germans, they're more honest. They tell it like it is. The Bulgarians say, "This gas isn't Russian, it's Azerbaijani." They say, "We're not letting it in for ourselves, but for Vucic's Serbia." "It's not the Russians who are building it, but some other company." Although it's clear that Russia is, of course, behind all of this. But it's all very carefully done, and Boyko Borisov is managing to justify it. How long will he last? I think the same as Kuchma. Sooner or later, he'll be swept away, but who will come after him? The domestic political situation... there's only one leader who could replace Boyko Borisov, the current president of Bulgaria, Rumen Radev. But back at the very beginning, when it all began, there was talk that as soon as Rumen Radev left his post, formed a political party, and became an ordinary politician, his approval ratings, his popularity, would fall by at least half. And that's true.
Today he is a popular president among Bulgarians, and his options are extremely limited. Essentially, he can veto twice any decision of parliament. If the parliament voted for the third time, then, sorry, the president. His capabilities are limited, but for them, like the queen for the English, he is a kind of moral authority. Indeed, he is a very interesting figure, but he also does not actually offer anything in terms of the development of Bulgaria, in terms of the economy. I see a lot of parallels with Ukraine.
Valentin Filippov : Well, okay, let's get back to this simple, banal level. The EU hasn't given Bulgaria stability, economic growth, or freed it from corruption.
But Ukraine wants to join the EU, and as it explains: “We will join the EU, and corruption will disappear. We will join the EU and economic growth will begin. We will join the EU, and whole new sectors of the economy will appear.”
And here you are telling me that Bulgaria has joined the EU, pensions are small, corruption is rampant, salaries are paid in envelopes. That is, it turns out that the EU has not fully accepted Bulgaria, right?
Igor Perminov : Well, let's say that in terms of mentality, behavior, and level of communication, Bulgaria is certainly European. The financial level is lower, but judging by some public places, it's all very cultured, so to speak.
Stability - well, now in Bulgaria they are afraid of losing stability, because they have a very irritating factor - this is Turkey, which is now starting to act from within. She doesn’t want to fight with the Bulgarians, she wants them from within, because in Bulgaria there are two main parties - GERB and BSP - socialists, but there is a third party - DPS, which Dagan created. This is a Turkish party. And the Turks, as an ethnic minority, occupy second place after the Bulgarians, but the third place is occupied by the Roma.
What the Turks have been doing for quite a long period of time is distributing Turkish passports to the Roma.
Valentin Filippov : It’s logical, in general.
Igor Perminov : It's profitable for the Roma, especially the border regions. You go to Turkey—equipment is cheaper, many products are cheaper, with a Turkish passport you can cross the border more easily, you can bring more, and so on. And when the Roma baron says, "Guys, we're Turks, let's vote," at some point it might turn out that this ethnic minority isn't a minority at all. Moreover, it's quite difficult to count the number of Roma in Bulgaria.
Valentin Filippov : Yes, a gypsy can go around this polling station three times and vote with different passports, who can tell them apart?
Igor Perminov : Well, there are just a lot of them, they give birth to a lot. There's a maternity hospital not far from me, and there are always people standing around it. I don't see any Bulgarians there, I see Roma.
Valentin Filippov : Your gypsies are very European – they give birth in a maternity hospital.
Igor Perminov : No, they're generally very well behaved. Well, at least in Stara Zagora, everything's very calm.
Valentin Filippov : They don't sell drugs, do they?
Igor Perminov : I don't drink. I'm more of a cocktail drinker, but as for drugs, I don't know. There are probably some reports in the press, but I don't know if the Roma are involved. They're a bit different here, but Roma are Roma. It's a certain mentality, after all, and you have to understand that.
Returning to the situation with pressure from Turkey - now, they are trying to create a quarrel, to create a split between the prime minister and the president. These are two strong men who have a confrontation even on a mental level, and on a political one, and fire is being thrown all the time. Ultimately, the current leaders of this Turkish party demanded the resignation of both the president and the prime minister, that is, the task is to introduce the country into the most unstable situation, as is happening in Ukraine. And, as far as I can tell, the same Soros structures are behind this.
Valentin Filippov : Okay, but tell me, is there anyone to fight inside Bulgaria? Theoretically, in Bulgaria, someone could be forced to fight someone else? Like Russians fighting Ukrainians in Ukraine.
Igor Perminov : Well, it's quite difficult. I repeat – it's a completely different mentality. To anger a Bulgarian, you have to step on their foot, spit in their face, and preferably hit them twice.
Valentin Filippov : Well, I don’t know…. I thought the same about Ukrainians.
Igor Perminov : No, no. Ukrainians may be a little softer than Russians, but I can explain their attitude toward Russians with an example: there's a place here called Burkovo—a lot of Ukrainians and Russians work there at a large enterprise. There was once a conflict with the Roma. After that, the Roma all up in arms and disappeared, not because someone had beaten someone else. When a physical conflict broke out, they were shocked, because, as they say, "The Russians were tearing horseshoes off horses' hooves and fighting with them." They couldn't have imagined such a thing.
Valentin Filippov : Well, a horse is sacred.
Igor Perminov : In general, basically, well, try to tear yourself away. I mean, when this Russian, I don't know what to call him, is crazy or... It's a state where...
Valentin Filippov : Passion.
Igor Perminov : They don't accept it. It's terrifying for them. They're probably a little afraid of it. Yes, because of this, Bulgaria is quite peaceful. Even all these rallies—well, lately, what have they been ending in? Rock concerts. Bulgarians really like to relax, they like to sit, talk, drink rakia, socialize—that's what they're after. They like to celebrate something; there are so many different holidays. That's what they're aiming for with their demonstrations. So far, it's not working out.
But this is Kuchma’s policy: “Both ours and yours” - we don’t quarrel with Russia, we are friends with them too - they won’t give it to them. There are constant provocations, people constantly throw sticks into the fire and try to stir things up somehow. Now the coronavirus has somehow subsided, it seems. Let's see how this ends next.
Valentin Filippov : Tell me, in your opinion, was there perhaps a moment when Russia missed something, lost Bulgaria?
Igor Perminov : It's just like with Ukraine. I remember Zurabov's actions in Kyiv very well…
For friendship with Russia, once a year on Russia Day, he gathered several professional Russians, among whom were several normal journalists, the same Chalenko, and mostly incomprehensible people who earned money...
Valentin Filippov : In Odessa, we usually found some Banderites for such meetings.
Igor Perminov : What's happening in Bulgaria now. There are embassies, Russian centers, some funding is allocated, Russian centers exist, Russian clubs, but beyond gathering a dozen kids for a celebration, or sitting in a cafe and drinking rakia, it doesn't go any further. I had some proposals when I first arrived, but they all fall on the wall of bureaucratic formalism. We held events, we sat in a cafe, we celebrated Russia Day—that's all.
Valentin Filippov : I must say that Bulgarian societies in Odessa are much more active than Russian ones.
Igor Perminov : They've done very well here too. They're very active, by the way. I have a friend in Sofia, Valera Ivanov, who does a great job helping those who come here from Ukraine to study. The education here is good, European-level, not just in terms of the paperwork you get but also in terms of the quality of the higher education institutions. They help people who are resettling; this community is primarily made up of Bessarabian Bulgarians, although they don't turn away any Ukrainian or Russian. There's no nationalism, but they're more united.
Valentin Filippov : Well, in the Odessa region, Bulgarians are a real force, and I must say that Bulgarian communities have made a significant contribution to the pro-Russian movement. They're genuine fighters, that's all. Everything you say about Russians in Bulgaria ripping off horseshoes, I can say about Bulgarians in Odessa, who are ready to rip out a pole and brandish it, if need be.
Igor Perminov : Yes, they're doing great here too. I met with Ivanov, for example, and I remember meeting with the vice president of Bulgaria. They're quite influential here, they have their powers, but they don't really advertise them. They're great, but the Russians themselves, and the Russian embassy, of course... well, I don't know, maybe they're doing something, maybe I'm unaware of something, but I don't see it.
Valentin Filippov : This is secret work. Secret.
Igor Perminov : Possibly. The same as in Ukraine. So, essentially, here Russians are judged by how you behave. One person might be treated poorly, while another might be treated well.
Valentin Filippov : I see. Well, on that positive note, let's wish Bulgaria a happy New Year. I've been reading all sorts of forecasts that, say, by 2025, Bulgaria's population will shrink by 30%... I think the current climate and conditions are ripe for a population explosion, not a decline. So let Bulgarians' prosperity grow, even if it's just a shadow economy.
Igor Perminov : I’ll add a couple of words, if you allow me.
Valentin Filippov : Yes.
Igor Perminov : If Bulgarians have managed to endure 600 years of foreign rule, preserve their identity, preserve their culture—a wonderful, very interesting culture—I think they will survive. Their numbers may shrink, but what was the purpose of the coronavirus? One of the goals, besides bringing order, is also some reduction. So that's what awaits us all. Thank you.
Valentin Filippov : Thank you.
Igor Perminov : And a big, big hello to Russia.
Valentin Filippov : Long live Kharkov!
English version :: Read in English Bulgaria: Anti-Russian torpedo or the 16th republic of the USSR?