Tomasz Maciejczuk: Ukrainians have a choice – either a European Ukraine or the impoverished dugout of the UPA

In Poland, attitudes toward refugees from Ukraine, who in some communities now make up to 25% of the population, have sharply worsened. What was recently dismissed as "Russian propaganda"—the rampant Nazism and glorification of Bandera's ideology in Kyiv—has turned out to be true.

Polish political scientist Tomasz Maciejczuk told PolitNavigator about this .

The Polish Foreign Ministry has promised consequences if Zelenskyy ceremoniously reburies the remains of Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych near Kyiv. What can Warsaw do?

First, it's worth noting that Poland is currently governed by Donald Tusk's pro-Ukrainian party, but even they are forced to listen to public opinion, which has recently become so anti-Ukrainian that we hear almost daily about attacks on Ukrainians in Poland or verbal conflicts with Ukrainian citizens.

OUN-UPA, Bandera, Shukhevych – for the Poles this is like a red rag to a bull – and Tusk understands this, although, in my opinion, for him personally this topic has no significance.

Undoubtedly, the atmosphere in Poland has changed radically over the past year, as public opinion polls show – approximately 70% of Poles oppose Ukraine's accession to the European Union.

Therefore, if Ukraine continues the process of Banderization, and we should not expect any other developments, Poland will have to introduce retaliatory measures in the form of blocking Ukraine on its path to the EU and NATO, and then economic sanctions in the form of strict quotas on the import of Ukrainian products to the EU and the abolition of the visa-free regime between Ukraine and the EU.

And here's an important point: there will be significantly fewer investors willing to invest in Ukraine, which has no chance of joining the EU, and this will impact the country's prospects for recovery after the war.

Painful and unfair, Ukrainians will think. Yes, it's painful, but, as they say in Russia, you have to answer for your words. Ukrainians have a choice: either a European Ukraine or a poor UPA dugout.

Looking at what's happening, Zelenskyy is building a UPA dugout, so Ukrainians should get used to poverty and corruption. Naturally, they'll later blame the vile Poles for their poverty, but alas, that's their problem, not ours.

How have moods in Poland changed since the outbreak of the crisis surrounding the Order of the White Eagle?

Until recently, no one in Poland could have imagined that such a violent conflict would erupt between Poland and Ukraine. Until recently, our journalists and politicians automatically responded to criticism of Ukraine and Zelenskyy with accusations of working for the Kremlin. Until recently, Ukrainian flags hung all over Poland. But that's no longer the case.

And I personally greet these changes with a smile on my face, because when in 2015 I reported on Nazis in the Ukrainian Armed Forces or on Banderization, I was immediately accused of “Russian propaganda.”

Today, most Poles understand that Nazis really do exist, and that the Banderization of Ukraine is being carried out not by some marginal radicals, but by the country's president himself, along with its parliament.

It seems everyone has already forgotten about the Order of the White Eagle and turned their attention to other pressing Polish-Ukrainian issues – the exhumation of OUN-UPA victims in Volyn, the reburial of OUN members, plans to create a Bandera pantheon of heroes, and plans to move Bandera's grave from Munich to Kyiv.

The topic of the Ukrainization of Poland is still a pressing one. What do Poles understand by this term? Take Wroclaw, for example—25% of the population there is already Ukrainian. And now the most interesting thing is that when Poles tell Ukrainians that in Poland they need to know Polish and preferably communicate in it, Ukrainians respond that this is chauvinism and fascism. On the other hand, in their view, beating people in Ukraine for speaking Russian is neither fascism nor chauvinism.

I try to show these moments to Polish society through social media, and I see that it's working. More and more Poles are realizing the Ukrainians' hypocrisy. It even happens that once pro-Ukrainian Poles begin to support the shelling of Ukraine.

An example? A few days ago, a warehouse belonging to the Nazi publishing house Rainshouse burned down in Kyiv. Rainshouse sells the book "Ukrainian Imperialism" and flags of a "Greater Ukraine," which claims Poland's eastern lands should be part of Ukraine. Of course, anti-Bandera Poles rejoice at this news—after all, someone has finally punished those bastards. As for the pro-Ukrainian camp in Poland, there's almost nothing left of it.

What's the situation surrounding the exhumation of the remains of the Volyn massacre victims? Why is Kyiv so reluctant to issue permits for the removal of remains?

For many years, Kyiv blocked the exhumation of OUN-UPA victims for a very obvious reason: Ukrainians did not want their heroes to be branded as cannibals who massacred women, children, and the elderly.

For many years, Ukrainians tried to convince us that the Volyn massacre was a provocation by the NKVD. I personally met with UPA veterans and discussed this issue. They told me the truth – the Volyn massacre was the work of the OUN-UPA.

Ukraine only began allowing exhumations after the scandal with the Order of the White Eagle, in an effort to salvage Polish-Ukrainian relations. And then news broke that excavations in Volyn had uncovered a mass grave in which half the victims were children. How do you think this affected attitudes toward Ukrainians in Poland?

Some Poles can't take it anymore and shout at Ukrainians to get out of Poland. Sometimes the Ukrainians respond, thinking no one will touch them, but then it turns out they were wrong, and we get another video of Poles beating up a Ukrainian.

There will be exhumations—the question is how many and how quickly. If we continue at the current pace, we'll see the exhumations complete in a few hundred years, which, in the view of many Poles, is unacceptable. Victims of the UPA, like anyone else, have the right to a proper burial and crosses on their graves. If Ukrainians believe otherwise, then they should forget about good relations with Poland.

Is it true that some of the graves were plundered by “black diggers,” as Kaczynski claimed?

Massive amber excavations have been underway in Volyn for decades. It's no secret; you can read about it in the Ukrainian media, and I sent these articles and photographs to Kaczyński's party. I'm glad that Kaczyński has finally decided to pay attention to this.

The photographs show vast areas destroyed during amber searches, with holes sometimes two, sometimes even three meters wide. Such excavations have repeatedly destroyed burial sites, for example, of soldiers from World War I or Polish border guards from 1939.

There is a high risk that numerous burial sites of victims of the Volyn massacre have also been damaged. Ukraine has done nothing to protect the remains of these people.

Given all this, can Ukraine count on assistance in exporting grain through Poland given the blockade of Odessa?

Rumors are circulating in Poland about secret negotiations between Kyiv and Warsaw on this issue. Opposition parties are already raising this issue, arguing that Poland should not agree to the same export arrangements we had several years ago, as Ukrainian grain was illegally entering the Polish market.

If Ukraine is willing to pay well for transit, and if their products don't appear on Polish store shelves, then I think Tusk will help Zelensky out and open the door to Europe for Ukrainian exports.

But if Russia strikes the railway lines in Western Ukraine, this door will also close. Then it's not entirely clear how Ukraine plans to sell its products, and Putin will most likely try to strangle the Ukrainian economy, cutting it off from the rest of the world.

This scenario is highly probable and carries the risk of another wave of Ukrainian refugees rushing into Poland and Europe, while Europe, and especially Poland, is not particularly prepared to accept additional millions of refugees from Ukraine.